MED-EL 2.4 GHz digital wireless technology alternatives

[Adam]

More time to be patient. I'm sure MEDEL has the recipients in mind with each decision that they make. Whatever they come up with, I'm sure will be pretty amazing

[Ivana Marinac]

More time to be patient. I'm sure MEDEL has the recipients in mind with each decision that they make. Whatever they come up with, I'm sure will be pretty amazing

 

Of course Adam - just stating that nothing has happened yet.

[andyp]

Hi Andy,

The Siemens miniTek is a 2.4GHz Bluetooth protocol streamer and not a 2.4GHz streamer. A 2.4GHz streamer uses the 2.4GHz proprietary protocol which removes many of the inefficiences of Bluetooth. This is the protocol Cochlear America and AB are using and which MED-EL will use.

I'm afraid it is you who are wrong.

The Tek/MiniTek is a BAN (Body Area Network) device it uses a very short range dedicated 2.4Ghz channel to transmit and receive from Siemens hearing aids or in this case Med-El devices.

The Tek/MiniTelk streamer itself is a bluetooth gateway that then talks to bluetooth devices or can be directly connected to devices.

As has been demonstrated amply in the past (research this yourself!) you cannot (yet) incorporate bluetooth into a hearing aid or ci processor simply because it uses too much battery power - That is why you need the streamer device - otherwise - what would be the point of the streamer?

There are lots of proprietary streamer protocols (of which the Siemens device is just one) all sharing the 2.4Ghz band.

 

Incidentally, 2.4Ghz is a frequency band - not a protocol - Bluetooth is a protocol.

What is probably confusing is that the streamer (gateway) receives bluetooth (over 2.4Ghz) and transmits the contained sound to the hearing instrument on the proprietory channel again sharing the 2.4Ghz band.

 

Read about it

Andy

[andyp]

Hi Andy,

The Siemens miniTek is a 2.4GHz Bluetooth protocol streamer and not a 2.4GHz streamer. A 2.4GHz streamer uses the 2.4GHz proprietary protocol which removes many of the inefficiences of Bluetooth. This is the protocol Cochlear America and AB are using and which MED-EL will use.

Not true - read my earlier comment!

Also - Bluetooth is most certainly not inefficient it is digital as opposed to analogue (which the streamers use) you can interfere with an analogue signal - bluetooth by virtue of being digital is not susceptible to interference. The problem with Bluetooth is the processing overhead which causes a delay and uses lots of power.

 

AB will most probably use the PHONAK ROGER streamer system which uses Phonaks proprietary 2.4Ghz link to one of their streamers which has direct connect or bluetooth connectivity.

Cochlear are using GN Resounds proprietary 2.4ghz system enabling their processors to communicate with things like the Resound Unite TM Phone Clip+ and other GN Resound streamers.The streamrs provide bluetooth or direct connectivity amongst other things.

[andyp]

I would like to query another factual error from earlier on....

Someone mentioned NFMI.

NFMI vs telecoil.

The OP states telecoil reception is inferior to FM or 2,4Ghz reception - I would agree with that.

But how can NFMI reception be any different to telecoil?

Near Field Magnetic Induction IS basically a telecoil - if works using magnetic induction! you would get the same data rate!

The "Near Field" bit is what makes it totally irrelevent to hearing aids or CI's, since its about providing power (again by magnetic induction) to a nearby low-power receiving device

typically a bank card with a identity/encryption chip!

Or in a battery charging mat.

[Mary Beth]

Hi Andrew,

We are just MedEl implant users sharing information and trying to help and support each other. From time to time, we all post information that may not be perfectly correct. It happens.

We tend to be a very supportive group of people.

It sounds like you eagerly await the 2.4 wireless future technology for CIs, just like me. I can't wait to learn about what MedEl has in store for us. I bet it's going to be great and it sounds as though we will be learning about it later this year.

I can't remember, do you already have a Sonnet processor? Were you using an Opus2 before that?

Mary Beth

[Adam]

Agreed Marybeth

We can hypothesise all day long. We will find out the specifics soon enough. I'm sure everyone is eagerly awaiting this technology. We are not professionals and we all are in different stages of our hearing journey. There is a lot of information out there and not all is accurate. Let's continue to support, encourage each other and share any info we learn.

[Helgeo]

Hi, I'm new on this forum.

Was implanted 1.5 years ago and have Medel Sonnet, expecting to get bi-lateral within a year or so.
Any news on the 2.4 GHz tech from Medel?

Would love to have a wireless connection, particularly when travelling by plane as the telecoil pics up all kinds of noise in a plane.

Helge

 

 

[Mary Beth]

Helge,

 

The future 2.4 wireless devices (AudioLink) are not released anywhere yet and there has been no date given that I have seen.

 

You can be wireless when traveling in a plane by using an over the ear noise canceling BlueTooth headphone set.  Many like the BOSE Quiet Comfort series.  Good luck.

[Kara of Canada]

Hi and welcome! I use a Bluetooth neckloop. The Quattro 4. Others use the artone or the fm systems which there are many to choose from. Best of luck!! 

[Mary Beth]

Neckloops do not work well on planes due to interference.  I have not tried Roger on a plane.  Maybe someone will and report back.

[Bill]

I am a CI candidate and I expect unilateral CI implantation soon. I am trying to decide on the best CI device for me. One particularly confusing area in making comparison of the three major US vendors is the area of wireless connectivity. This post simply raises my level of anxiety about MED-EL.

I currently use bilateral Phonak hearing aids. They connect to Bluetooth devices such as my cell phone and computer through an intermediate Phonak device named ComPilot. The ComPilot communicates with my hearing aids using an undisclosed and presumably proprietary transmission protocol. I do not believe it is the same as an induction loop using t-coil technology but I do not know that for sure. The ComPilot is worn on a loop around the neck; the loop presumably serving as an antenna. The ComPilot can pair with Bluetooth devices. I can connect my hearing aids to my cell phone by using the ComPilot and by pairing the ComPilot and the phone. The ComPilot also has a connector that allows an FM receiver to be attached to it. In that way, I can access a Roger Pen through the ComPilot as well. I presume one advantage of this arrangement is that the greater power demands of FM reception (compared to Bluetooth) is placed on the ComPilot device and not the hearing aids (or processor).

I find MED-ELs treatment of its wireless connectivity on the web to be particularly obscure. Perhaps someone can help me understand.

The introduction to Roger Pen on the current website (5/2017) shows the FM receiver attached to the base of a SONNET processor. That seems straightforward, but it makes me wonder about the impact of having this receiver attached to the processor. Does this significantly reduce the life of processor batteries? Does anyone have experience in using an FM transmitter with their SONNET processor?

The introduction’s explanation of Bluetooth connectivity states that it occurs “with your MED-EL processor through an intermediary transmitter like a Quattro or Roger Pen.”

I find this truly puzzling. I realize that the Roger Pen charging base can be attached by cable to a sound source so that it can be used to convey sound from a television, for example. But I am not aware that the Roger Pen has any Bluetooth capability. Perhaps it does and I have simply not realized it since the ComPilot typically manages any Bluetooth connectivity that interests me.

But what about the Quattro as an intermediary device? My impression from brief introductions to Quattro available on the web is that it is a device like the ComPilot. How does it connect to the SONNET processor? Is it using the t-coil capability mentioned in the last paragraph, State-of-the-Art Telecoil? I have telecoil ability with my Phonak hearing aids but I have had no real success in making use of it. In every environment where I’ve tried to make use of it, the ambient RF noise has made it very nearly useless. Has anyone successfully used the telecoil capability in the SONNET processor to listen to music or sound from a computer? Is this comparable to using Quattro? Is it different? Does it require yet another neck loop?

[Mary Beth]

Hi Bill and welcome.

 

I am a bilateral Med-El CI user and I have Sonnets.  I also work as a Teacher of the Deaf so I am familiar with the ComPilot device as well.  I will try to answer your questions.

 

First of all, Med-El has a 2.4 wireless device in development called the AudioLink.  Some people in Europe have received vouchers for it.  You can do a search online and see an image of it.  We have no idea when it will be available.  The Sonnets are 2.4 wireless ready.

 

We have several options though right now for connecting to BlueTooth devices.  I connect everyday.

1) BlueTooth neckloop like Quattro4 or Artone 3 MAX (Artone 3 MAX is my favorite BlueTooth neckloop).

Pros:  wireless, works with BlueTooth streamers also attached to TVs or BlueTooth remote mics, you can opt for 50/50 mix on MT or 100/0 on T

Con: may encounter electromagnetic interference in some locations

 

2) Roger X type 02 receiver (set for the Sonnet CI setting) and a Roger Pen transmitter

Pros: wireless, better sound quality than telecoil, connects to phone via BlueTooth, uses a cable to connect to phone for music

Con: It is not possible to get 100/0 mix with the Sonnet, it is line of sight transmission so outdoors the speaker must be facing you (in a room that signal bounces off of the walls)

 

3) BlueTooth over the ear noise canceling headphones (my favorite are BOSE Quiet Comfort)

Pros: wireless, awesome sound quality, comfortable with the Sonnet processors

Con: you have to wear headphones

 

4) DAI cable red jack mixes 90/10 (it's my favorite one), yellow jack mixes 50/50 (I don't use this one at all.)

Pros: great sound quality

Con: not wireless, the cable is stiff

 

The Roger System will decrease your battery life but the Sonnet has rechargeable batteries so it really isn't a problem.  You have the option of using a different receiver, which is worn around your neck, and then you need to be on MT or T.  You can get 100/0 mix with that set up and it does not drain your battery faster.  If your HA in the other ear has a telecoil, it can receive the signal as well.

 

When choosing a CI brand it is important to remember that the processors and accessories change all of the time.  I have been implanted for 2 years and I have three different types of processors just because of the timing of my surgeries.  The internal component though stays with us long term.  One important thing that Med-El does, which is not true of all CI brands, is that Med-El makes future processors compatible with all internal implants.  I have friends who were implanted 15+ years ago and they are using the newest Med-El processor, Sonnet.  That is something that will be important for us later on too.

Wishing you the absolute best on your CI journey.

[Valentin]

Incredible update of post @Mary Beth

 

[Bill]

Thanks, Mary Beth. Your response was clear, comprehensive and very helpful. 

[stream2525]

It is almost two years and this is not available yet.

Why? 

[Ivana Marinac]

Well... who knows...? 

[hadron]

@stream2525 The SONNET was actually released in June 2014 with future wireless capability. FDA approved late December 2014. A little over 3.5 years ago. Hopefully the Audiolink wireless stuff will be available this year.

Nice to see HearPeers back up and running.

[Adam]

Taken longer than I would have expected but I would rather have them take their time to make sure there aren’t any bugs they need to fix later

[Mary Beth]

I agree that it is taking longer than expected to release the AudioLink.  The AudioLink vouchers in Europe made many of us think it would be released already but those users are still waiting for the AudioLink as well.

I look forward to using the Sonnet’s internal 2.4 wireless connectivity feature.  I am willing to wait until Med-El has a quality intermediary device to release.

It seems like our CI journeys will always have us waiting expectantly for new features, accessories and processors.  I wish Med-El would create a survey for present users so that we could each communicate which features, etc we are most hoping to see in future processors.

[Mary Beth]

I have a friend who recently got Cochlear’s N7 processor which has the app for direct from iOS devices without the need for an intermediary device.  The app has lots of cool settings that the user can change at will, including mixing ratios.  It is my hope that Med-El will offer something similar at some point.  It works for calls, music, audiobooks, etc.

 

AB is releasing a direct from all phone platforms option but that ONLY works for actual phone calls and not for music nor audiobook streaming.  I am not interested in that as I stream ONLY for music, podcasts and audiobooks.

 

It definitely is an exciting time to be a CI user.  Lots of cool features being released.

[stream2525]

They should have considered adding this to Rondo2 . 

[Mary Beth]

@stream2525, In my opinion the Rondo 2 battery life is too short to support wireless streaming.  We need longer battery life.  I wonder how they will deliver that in time?

[Cara Mia]

Mary Beth, then it means that when  2.4 wireless connectivity is available for Sonnet, it should be some changes for Sonnet rechargeable batteries as they even weaker that it promised in Rondo 2. Or we will need to switch to disposables. Do you know anything about 2.4 and Sonnet battery options?

[Mary Beth]

@Cara Mia, All I know about 2.4 wireless connectivity is that in other brands it decreases battery life.  Makes sense because when Sonnet users use the Roger 21 or Roger X receivers, they also reduce battery life.  Parents of young Sonnet users have been commenting that the standard rechargeable battery with Roger system does not last a school day for their children and it is posing difficulties with the need for rechargeable battery changes at school for some of them.