Different versions of Sonnet2

[Mary Beth]

I did not realize there were different versions of Sonnet 2.  

https://www.medel.com/scalability-serial-number-evaluation-page

Sonnet 2 1510

Sonnet 2 1512

https://www.medel.com/hearing-solutions/cochlear-implants/sonnet2#Technical

[Tim]

@Mary Beth Very interesting.

I need to put the two sets of specs alongside each other but surprising the lower number, 1510,  seems to have a broader frequency range.

1510:   Frequency Range 70–9300 Hz

vs.

1512:  Frequency Range 70–8500 Hz

800 Hz in the upper frequency range would be nice but isn't such a big deal. 

I couldn't see anything else from a quick glance but would really need to look at them side by side. 

 

[Lauren]

1510 says Maestro 8.0 or later (along with a HearCares mention) and 1512 says 6.0 or later. I also was having a hard time finding differences though as they have them listed differently and don’t mention the same items. 

[Mary Beth]

I guess if you type in your Sonnet2 serial numbers you can find out which one you have @Tim and @Lauren? 

[Tim]

@Mary Beth  Actually, I just checked - the answer for me is neither.

I have the ME1520 which is the EAS version.  I can get the versions from Med-El Configuration Report printout that my Audi gives me after appointments.

I wonder if there is a 1522 EAS equivalent to the 1512 non-EAS or if the 1520 (EAS version) already has whatever updates or changes are in there. I'll try to do a little digging to find the frequency range of the ME1520.  (My Rondo 3 is ME1550.)

From Lauren's comment about Maestro software versions and the broader frequency range, it would seem like the 1510 would be the newer version compared to the 1512 but that would seem odd from a model numbering convention.  Interesting little mystery.

 

[Lauren]

@Tim interesting. I typed mine in and got 1510. Both of mine are also EAS capable, but not using EAS as my residual hearing didn’t hold up to the second surgery. 

[Tim]

Okay, answering my question.  The 1520 (based on Med-El's spec page) seems to be similar to the 1510 with the same broader frequency range.  Oddly, it doesn't list a Maestro Software.  Another key difference is ASM:

1520:  Automatic Sound Management 2.0

1510:  Automatic Sound Management 3.0

1512: Automatic Sound Management 2.0

 

[Lauren]

I did notice 1512 had mentioned ASM 2.0 and I went back to check 1510 but either glossed over it or it was listed in a different section so didn’t see it.

It would definitely help if the site instead listed things in the same section or by a comparison chart. Having to select one and scroll down then back up and switch isn’t very intuitive or user-friendly. 

[Mary Beth]

It may be the 1512 was not released in all countries and indeed came after 1510- even though it has more limited ASM 2.  Sometimes versions of processors are released in some countries at a lower model version/price range due to financial limitations.

[Mary Beth]

@Tim if you have adaptive intelligence mild or strong on your Sonnet 2, it is running ASM 3.

adaptive intelligence mild/strong

ambient noise reduction

 transient noise reduction

were all introduced in ASM 3

[Tim]

@Mary Beth Interesting.  My configuration report still lists Strong Adaptive Intelligence in program slot and WNR, ANR, TNR.

Perhaps there was a firmware upgrade for the 1520 to add ASM 3.0?

 

[Tim]

The more I dig in, the more puzzling it is.  Sorry for the lengthy essay that this became.  There seems to be some clarification and still open questions at the bottom of this essay.

My configuration report indicates a frequency range of 70-8500 Hz (like the ME1512) instead of the broader 70-9300 of the ME1510 or 1520. 

So, my 1520's specification sheet says ASM 2.0 but appears to have ASM 3.0 features used (better than specs indicate) but then based on frequency ranges, it seems to be less than specs indicate should be supported. 

I was writing a lengthy comparison but now I realize that even Med-El appears to list different ME1520 specs on their own website. 

This page lists only the 1520 and says ASM 2.0 and no ANR or TNR. It is from the en-us folder in the web page.

This page lists both the 1520 and the 1522.  Here it says 1520 has the ASM 3.0 and associated WNR, TNR; wider IDR (78 dB); broader frequency range (70–9300 Hz).  1522 on this page is ASM 2.0 so no WNR, TNR, and limited frequency range (70-8500) but does have the wider IDR of 78 dB)

Another difference is Input Dynamic Range:

• 1510: Input Dynamic Range (IDR) of 78 dB (28–106 dB SPL)
• 1512: Input Dynamic Range (IDR) of 78 dB
• 1520: Input Dynamic Range (IDR) of 75 dB

Noise reduction listings from specifications are consistent with what Mary Beth said about the introduction of ASM 3.0.

• 1510: Wind, Ambient, and Transient
• 1512: Wind
• 1520: Wind

Maybe my program 2 says it is using Adaptive Intelligence Mild but that the ANR, WNR, and TNR settings of (Automatic) are really just "off" due to not being supported. 

@Lauren's case may be even more puzzling with both serial numbers indicating 1510 but having an EAS when it seems 1510 and 1512 are not EAS models.

-------------------------

I thought I was done with this essay at this point but one more web search opened another chapter.

Now I realize that even Med-El appears to list different ME1520 specs on their own website. Some of this might just be out of date specifications.

This page lists only the 1520 and says ASM 2.0 and no ANR or TNR. It is from the en-us folder in the web page.

This page lists both the 1520 and the 1522.  Here it says 1520 has the ASM 3.0 and associated WNR, TNR; wider IDR (78 dB); broader frequency range (70–9300 Hz).  1522 on this page is ASM 2.0 so no WNR, TNR, and limited frequency range (70-8500) but does have the wider IDR of 78 dB)

-----------------

Some questions for Fellow Sonnet 2 users. 

1. Which version of the Sonnet 2 are you using:  1510, 1512, 1520, or 1522? 
2. Do you have an EAS or non-EAS(this seems to indicate 1520 or 1522 but Lauren's experience says no)?
3. When did you get your processors
4. Which country?
5. Maximum frequency supported in configuration report?

My answers: 1520, EAS, January 2023, US, 8500 Hz.

---------------------

I'm hopeful that I have the 1520 as specced from the second page rather than the first! 

Also, I wonder if the Audi needs to do any thing to make better use of the additional frequency range.  Looking back on my old Anatomy-Based Fitting frequency ranges, it seems like they avoided using anything above 8500 even though the electrodes 11 and 12 were positioned above 8500. 

A further question, if you have ABF and use a Sonnet 2 - do you know whether it is using frequencies above 8500? Now I'm, wondering if I could have had better ABF success last year!  Perhaps people with more music success tend to have the broader frequency range utilized. 

---------------------

Some questions for Med-El @Moderators

• Does ME1520 have ASM 2.0 or 3.0?  (Effectively which spec page is correct?)
• Lauren's S/N check says her EAS is a 1510, is that possible or are all EAS of 152x?
• Does enabling the higher frequency range (70-9300 Hz) require the Audi to take proactive action such that we should ask in an appointment?

 

[Lauren]

@Tim

My answers: 1510 per the search, EAS, June 2021 (L) & November 2022 (R) both still original to surgical kit/never replaced, USA, 70-9300 per specs. 

I’ll have to scrounge around tonight to find my ABF report to see what the max frequency being used is, though I know one side has 11 or 12 turned off but not the other. 

My Sonnet 2s appear in AK2 like this - I did not rename them. To date the only processors I’ve renamed were my lost Rondo 3s as I’m still hopeful that they’ll turn up some day (they haven’t so far but I can keep dreaming/wishing). When I click on them they show the same serial number as what’s inside the battery cover. 

[Tim]

@Lauren Thanks.  Wondering you ever received a printout or electronic copy of the Med-El Configuration Report? 

This would indicate a model number.  (Perhaps the serial number look function is giving bad results.) 

Also, it gives a frequency range seemingly used for the map which may be less than the amount supported by the device's specification.  (My 1520 specs in one page says max of 8500 Hz, the other 9300 Hz, I think the 9300 is likely to be correctly.  In either case, it seems like my MAP is limited to a max of 8500 Hz.  I'm wondering if anyone here is actually getting to use the extra 800 Hz.  I just sent my Audi an email to ask about whether this is something that needs to be enabled in Maestro? 

 

[Mary Beth]

@Tim

I use a frequency range of 100-8500 Hz and have excellent musical experiences- including the ability to differentiate between a single semitone in pitch.  I only mention this because the 8500 Hz may not explain a person’s musical experiences with CIs.

The US offered Sonnet 2 for quite awhile before its ASM 3 features were approved and turned on.

Sonnet 2 released elsewhere Fall 2019 with ASM 3 active

in US Sonnet 2 released January 2020 without ASM 3

Sonnet 2 ASM 3 FDA approved June 2021, released August 2021

 

So  information about the Sonnet 2 on the US site may vary.

 

[John F]

1 hour ago, Mary Beth said:

@Tim

I use a frequency range of 100-8500 Hz and have excellent musical experiences- including the ability to differentiate between a single semitone in pitch.  I only mention this because the 8500 Hz may not explain a person’s musical experiences with CIs.

The US offered Sonnet 2 for quite awhile before its ASM 3 features were approved and turned on.

Sonnet 2 released elsewhere Fall 2019 with ASM 3 active

in US Sonnet 2 released January 2020 without ASM 3

Sonnet 2 ASM 3 FDA approved June 2021, released August 2021

 

So  information about the Sonnet 2 on the US site may vary.

 

Yup.  My hybrid ABF is 150-8500hz.  Music is…not great.  

Both of mine are 1510, one being technically an EAS model.

 

[Tim]

Perhaps the frequency range doesn't matter so much when the focus is on speech. Here's a study that says that speech intelligibility may be best for letting all the electrodes provide sharper differentiation in the speech regions with a range of just 250-6500 Hz. Give this, Med-El might be choosing to keep the default of 70-8500 as a default for speech intelligibility.

 

Pleased that maybe my old Sonnet 2 might have a little more "headroom" than I thought. It seems like these settings should be accounted for in an ABF though and I even had a Med-El rep present at my ABF. 

 

@Mary Beth As you always remind us, every case is so unique.  Glad to hear that you are enjoying music.  I enjoy music when I let my good ear carry the weight.  When I stream only, it is a very mixed experience. 

 

I wonder if I might be able to squeeze out a little better music quality by using the higher frequency.  Something for future experimentation.  As an SSD, I feel like my good ear can carry the weight for speech intelligibility and perhaps the broader range provides more cues for things like noise and spatial awareness from my CI side (as well as potential for a slightly better musical experience too.)

 

I tried searching for a frequency range of the three processor manufacturers but little luck. 

 

@John F Your  hybrid ABF is 150-8500hz.  Do you know if any of your electrodes were placed at higher than 8500 Hz?   My last two were and they gave me the option of turning off 11 and 12 or converting to a hybrid ABF with the 8500 threshold.  We did the hybrid ABF but now I'm realizing there could have been a better matching hybrid going up to 9300 or just go pure ABF and turn off only 12.   The CT scans and data are still available so I could always give it another try. 

---------------

As always, being able to have good conversations on technical issues about our CIs is a great part of the HearPeers community.  I've still only met one other CI user in the last 20 years in real-life. 

 

[John F]

@Tim TBH no clues but with new Audi appt next week, will hopefully (finally) get answers and all.  I do know 2 electrodes are disabled on one side and three on the other.  The frequency is smushed down between the remaining.

[Tim]

I just confirmed using the Med Serial Number tool @Mary Beth provided that mine is a Me1520. 

I should get back to work-spent enough time going down this rabbit hole. 

My next MAPping isn't until January.

[Mary Beth]

Definitely @Tim

Our CI journeys are all unique

[Tim]

1 hour ago, John F said:

@Tim TBH no clues but with new Audi appt next week, will hopefully (finally) get answers and all.  I do know 2 electrodes are disabled on one side and three on the other.  The frequency is smushed down between the remaining.

You have a new Audi too?  It is hard, even if they try to convey all the information.  My new Audi said she only has a few Med-El patients but has her rep on speed dial.  She even tried calling during our appointment to ask about the mix-ratio item. 

[John F]

26 minutes ago, Tim said:

You have a new Audi too?  It is hard, even if they try to convey all the information.  My new Audi said she only has a few Med-El patients but has her rep on speed dial.  She even tried calling during our appointment to ask about the mix-ratio item. 

Yeah… supposedly runs circles around the entire office staff with her knowledge.  Also doesn’t hurt she wears CIs as well so that’ll maybe be helpful to lean on for a change.  

[Lauren]

@Tim

Wondering you ever received a printout or electronic copy of the Med-El Configuration Report? - double checked and nothing I have received to date has that information on it. 

I also have good experience with music. It sounds the best when streamed through my Sonnet 2 AudioStreams. I’m hoping the Rondo 3 AS adapters are equally as good when they’re delivered and I can try them out. 

[Tim]

@Lauren I'll send you my configuration report as an example privately.  I think it must not be too hard for the Audi to generate from Maestro.  My first Audi didn't mind and my second did it after the first visit.  They might print to PDF and email it as an attachment. 

As for music, I wonder if there is a complex combination of both audio quality and expectations.  I wonder if SSD people might have higher expectations of music since they can hear so clearly on the other ear. 

My slowly building list of about 90 "Liked" songs in spotify vary from good to just tolerable when streamed 100% to the CI. 

On BT headphones on top of my Sonnet 2  with balance set to 100% on CI, 0% on my good ear, they are all good, some very good. (perhaps leakage to my good ear is enough to help.)

On BT headphones with balance set to 90% on CI, say 10% on my good ear, they are all excellent.

Using a less familiar collection like the  Spotify playlist, "Med-El Music for Cochlear Implants", it is not as good.  When streamed 100% to CI, a few are good while the vast majority are merely recognizable/barely tolerable or unrecognizable/intolerable.   Much better again with headphones over my Sonnet 2.

 

[MED-EL Moderator]

14 hours ago, Tim said:

The more I dig in, the more puzzling it is.  Sorry for the lengthy essay that this became.  There seems to be some clarification and still open questions at the bottom of this essay.

My configuration report indicates a frequency range of 70-8500 Hz (like the ME1512) instead of the broader 70-9300 of the ME1510 or 1520. 

So, my 1520's specification sheet says ASM 2.0 but appears to have ASM 3.0 features used (better than specs indicate) but then based on frequency ranges, it seems to be less than specs indicate should be supported. 

I was writing a lengthy comparison but now I realize that even Med-El appears to list different ME1520 specs on their own website. 

This page lists only the 1520 and says ASM 2.0 and no ANR or TNR. It is from the en-us folder in the web page.

This page lists both the 1520 and the 1522.  Here it says 1520 has the ASM 3.0 and associated WNR, TNR; wider IDR (78 dB); broader frequency range (70–9300 Hz).  1522 on this page is ASM 2.0 so no WNR, TNR, and limited frequency range (70-8500) but does have the wider IDR of 78 dB)

Another difference is Input Dynamic Range:

• 1510: Input Dynamic Range (IDR) of 78 dB (28–106 dB SPL)
• 1512: Input Dynamic Range (IDR) of 78 dB
• 1520: Input Dynamic Range (IDR) of 75 dB

Noise reduction listings from specifications are consistent with what Mary Beth said about the introduction of ASM 3.0.

• 1510: Wind, Ambient, and Transient
• 1512: Wind
• 1520: Wind

Maybe my program 2 says it is using Adaptive Intelligence Mild but that the ANR, WNR, and TNR settings of (Automatic) are really just "off" due to not being supported. 

@Lauren's case may be even more puzzling with both serial numbers indicating 1510 but having an EAS when it seems 1510 and 1512 are not EAS models.

-------------------------

I thought I was done with this essay at this point but one more web search opened another chapter.

Now I realize that even Med-El appears to list different ME1520 specs on their own website. Some of this might just be out of date specifications.

This page lists only the 1520 and says ASM 2.0 and no ANR or TNR. It is from the en-us folder in the web page.

This page lists both the 1520 and the 1522.  Here it says 1520 has the ASM 3.0 and associated WNR, TNR; wider IDR (78 dB); broader frequency range (70–9300 Hz).  1522 on this page is ASM 2.0 so no WNR, TNR, and limited frequency range (70-8500) but does have the wider IDR of 78 dB)

-----------------

Some questions for Fellow Sonnet 2 users. 

1. Which version of the Sonnet 2 are you using:  1510, 1512, 1520, or 1522? 
2. Do you have an EAS or non-EAS(this seems to indicate 1520 or 1522 but Lauren's experience says no)?
3. When did you get your processors
4. Which country?
5. Maximum frequency supported in configuration report?

My answers: 1520, EAS, January 2023, US, 8500 Hz.

---------------------

I'm hopeful that I have the 1520 as specced from the second page rather than the first! 

Also, I wonder if the Audi needs to do any thing to make better use of the additional frequency range.  Looking back on my old Anatomy-Based Fitting frequency ranges, it seems like they avoided using anything above 8500 even though the electrodes 11 and 12 were positioned above 8500. 

A further question, if you have ABF and use a Sonnet 2 - do you know whether it is using frequencies above 8500? Now I'm, wondering if I could have had better ABF success last year!  Perhaps people with more music success tend to have the broader frequency range utilized. 

---------------------

Some questions for Med-El @Moderators

• Does ME1520 have ASM 2.0 or 3.0?  (Effectively which spec page is correct?)
• Lauren's S/N check says her EAS is a 1510, is that possible or are all EAS of 152x?
• Does enabling the higher frequency range (70-9300 Hz) require the Audi to take proactive action such that we should ask in an appointment?

 

@Tim, thank you for tagging us. We will check in with our product experts here at MED-EL HQ regarding your questions and follow-up as soon as possible. 

Kind Regards