HearPeers Heroes Adam Posted January 1, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Yes Ivana, my CI Audi laughed and said I had done more detailed research than any of her patients before. I just wanted to know for sure that the decision I made was the best for me. I think that goes for any medical procedure. You have to be an informed and educated patient. It will help you and the doctor. I believe it is a team effort between doctor/Audi and patient. You both want the best outcome so work together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Adam Posted January 1, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Haven't looked for her contact info but I will today and let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Ivana Marinac Posted January 1, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Yes Ivana, my CI Audi laughed and said I had done more detailed research than any of her patients before. I just wanted to know for sure that the decision I made was the best for me. I think that goes for any medical procedure. You have to be an informed and educated patient. It will help you and the doctor. I believe it is a team effort between doctor/Audi and patient. You both want the best outcome so work together. You are a dream patient of any doctor, Adam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Kara of Canada Posted January 1, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Lol! That would be a dream for me!! I scare the Drs!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Ivana Marinac Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Well, you're not scared of me... This is a start... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Adam Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Funny you should say that Kara. I actually have had residents walk into my room in the ER, take a look at my history and what was going on then, then proceed to tell me somebody will be in shortly and walk right back out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Ivana Marinac Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Ts, ts, ts... residents - children, got caught in the real world... Nobody told them here is even bigger fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Adam Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yeah this was a few years ago. They don't have paper files anymore. Now all I have to do is explain my symptoms in proper terminology and I get the same effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Adam Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I emailed her today and waiting on a response. She had posted on her BLOG a video on music appreciation about 15 minutes long. I was going to share the link but I have reservations. Mainly because it did not shed a good light on music appreciation after CI implantation. They gave sound clips saying a person with a CI would not be able to tell the differences between two different recordings. When I listened today, I could easily tell the difference. Their version of what a recipient hears, at least to me was WAAY off. This video was recorded in 2009. An awful lot has changed in CI software and programming since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Kara of Canada Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Actually that's a good one Ivana!! The doctors are scared by me!! I have rare complications during surgeries that scare them really bad. Had a surgeon tell I gave him nightmares!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Kara of Canada Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I have seen some of my paper files. 6 inches or more thick!! But your right they don't use paper files anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Ivana Marinac Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Actually that's a good one Ivana!! The doctors are scared by me!! I have rare complications during surgeries that scare them really bad. Had a surgeon tell I gave him nightmares!!! It's even better when there is a combination - a rare diagnose and doctor :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Ivana Marinac Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I emailed her today and waiting on a response. She had posted on her BLOG a video on music appreciation about 15 minutes long. I was going to share the link but I have reservations. Mainly because it did not shed a good light on music appreciation after CI implantation. They gave sound clips saying a person with a CI would not be able to tell the differences between two different recordings. When I listened today, I could easily tell the difference. Their version of what a recipient hears, at least to me was WAAY off. This video was recorded in 2009. An awful lot has changed in CI software and programming since then. I was interested in these music files where people are trying to show how person with a CI appreciate music and I was always wondering - how they do that?!? How they can be sure? On the other side, some people could be better - these clips could easily discourage a person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Adam Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Exactly, that's why I decided not to post it. I had no trouble recognizing the instruments. They played what a person with a CI would hear. For me personally it sounded that way in the beginning, but no longer. They never said you would improve. I got the feeling they were saying, you are stuck listening to this for the rest of your life. There was no talk of improvement. Of course, back in 2009, that was probably the best a person could hope for. My thought is, there are too many variables that you have to look at before saying "this is what you will hear". The persons age? How long has the person been deaf? How severe the hearing loss before implantation? Reason for hearing loss? Persons willingness to get the maximum out of the CI? Not to mention advances in coding strategy. He just seems to be painting all CI recipients with a wide brush. The music I listen to today, sounds exactly as it did when my hearing was "normal" I get asked, well what about new songs because the old ones you just remember and not hear? Well my guess is I can tell the difference between an acoustic guitar and an electric guitar as well as the notes. If an acoustic guitar, which I can easily recognize, plays a new song, I can still appreciate it because I am hearing what I am supposed to hear. I took a while to get there. At one point it all sounded like mush. In the video he said people's brains are wired to understand speech but not music. We can learn to recognize speech but not music. I couldn't disagree more. He was right if you are talking about a newly activated person but I don't feel he looked hard enough at progress through a lot of practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Ivana Marinac Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Well... I have been listening Prof. Charles Limb who didn't say exactly that "human brain is not wired for music than science still doesn't understand the way it is coded" because speech and music are not using same connections and centers in the brain. I can understand that but I would always ask before a CI user what's the experience than guess... Regarding your observation about new songs - this is no surprise because present music is very different than it was previous. Today's music is more combination of various rhythms and samples than piece of music at piano or guitar. It's more cool if it is remixed or similar. This can be very challenge for a person who is trying to catch that train if there is no previous music knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Adam Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 This is an excerpt form that video. "Now the other issue comes with, not just the ability to tell pitches apart, but the ability to tell sounds apart. Most cochlear implant users cannot tell the difference between an instrument. If we could play these two sound clips in succession. (Trumpet) The trumpet. And the second one. (Violin) That's a violin. These have similar wave forms. They're both sustained instruments. Cochlear implant users cannot tell the difference between these instruments. The sound quality, or the sound of the sound is how I like to describe timbre, tone color -- they cannot tell these things whatsoever. This implant is not transmitting the quality of music that usually provides things like warmth". Again this was back in 2009 but Right now, I would have to disagree with this. A freind of mine wrote a song recently and played it on an acoustic guitar accompanied with piano and drums. I had never heard the song before but could clearly identify the instraments melody, warmth as he puts it. What I am saying is that most but not all CI recipients can and do enjoy music. Like I stated before, there are so many factors that are going to influence how how well you do enjoy music. Prelingually deafened, postlinually deafend age or amount of time the person was deaf before receiving an implant. The coding strategy used...... I'm sure if we were to interview him today, he might have a different opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Ivana Marinac Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Ok, but we are talking about whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Ivana Marinac Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 This is Ted lecture from Prof. Charles Limb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTE0MRRXNzs I can understand what he actually wants to tell - it's not that present or the situation 4 years ago is bad just there are lot of work in front of us. Also, I am pretty convinced that he wanted to accentuate the fact of timing of becoming deaf. If you become deaf during your life there are all chances that you regain your ability to appreciate the music because neural paths properly developed once and after that only rehabilitation set difference. If you are born deaf, neural paths weren't developed at the right time - but on the other side, we have people who do very well with their CI despite been deaf since their birth: is it really matter if it doesn't sound completely 100% like natural? I would choose no - because the most important thing is not to mourn for natural (in)abilities than to make as much as you can from your set of cards. Of course, I can understand Dr. Limb's perspective - I am pretty sure that he wanted to say that there is many more things to do or to discover; he has to push the limits so humanity doesn't stop at the point where person with CI just function. Like he said - there is a reason between functioning and beauty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Sandy Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Exactly, Ivana. Play the hand you are dealt. Technology changes at a fast pace. Fifty years ago we didn't have what we have now and look at the strides each of has met with practice, patience and perseverance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Ivana Marinac Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 So, I was little bit curious (And you know that curiosity killed the cat ) Here is the study from Dr. Limb where he actually confirmed that deeper inserted electrode at certain angle improves person's ability to understand lower frequencies which actually improve the music appreciation. I can understand this extremely well - when my lower frequencies are not raised enough, I lose that feeling of music greatness. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26669557 This study describes how researchers study music appreciation at a CI implantee: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22314920 And last but not less important, a study where Dr. Limb actually confirms that newer strategy of coding, the FSP is better regarding the music appreciation because it enable understanding basses and lower frequencies. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25906173 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Ivana Marinac Posted January 2, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 And finally I find this paper very interested - it's complicate however but interesting facts are written in the Introduction section. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0120148 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Ivana Marinac Posted January 3, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 This is specially for - Tim: Accurate Guitar Tuning by Cochlear Implant Musicianshttp://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0092454 Hila 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Mary Beth Posted January 3, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I had a CI surgeon tell me that it is impossible for music to sound good with a CI. I was offended by that comment because I had just told him that music was improving. In fact, music continues to improve and I am enjoying old and new music to a much greater degree now than before. I think it would be helpful if CI surgeons realized that people with progressive HL are not going from hearing with a fully functioning cochlea to hearing with a CI overnight. We have experienced many differences in our hearing abilities as the loss progressed. Music was already compromised way before we got our CIs. I know that my CIs have given music back to me in a much more rewarding way. It takes time and listening practice just like everything else. The sound clips of how speech sounds through a CI are also incorrect. Since we actually end up hearing with our brains, how can they know what it sounds like to us? These CIs are amazing devices and our brain's neuroplasticity abilities are remarkable. Mary Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Ivana Marinac Posted January 3, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Mary Beth, Ci surgeons are mostly mechanics. That's why I have quoted Dr. Limb who is otosurgeon, musician and researcher in the same time. Most of people are satisfied with present state of any advancement - this doesn't mean that is not beyond that - they are just lack of creativity and imagination. Music Cochlea Festival is started at the initiative of other great otosurgeon, dr. Henryk Skarzynski. On the other side, I would like to write you - don't take them so offensive, they are just seeking better results for everyone. I wouldn(t sleep well if we would say that their job is done. Try to think in that direction. Kylie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HearPeers Heroes Adam Posted January 3, 2016 HearPeers Heroes Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Here are some resources for you Tim http://www.medel.com/us/user-support-enjoying-music/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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