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  • HearPeers Heroes

Hello Gang,

 

Before posting this topic I balanced a lot where exactly put it - not quite a matter of rehab and it does not enters into a category most used outer unit named on the forum. So I decided to put it in this general column hoping that someone has a possible solution to offer.

 

Yesterday I was contacted by a member of a CI community from a country near mine - she`s an adult CI implantee already 16 years (implanted when she was a 4 years old) used an old processor - TEMPO. This young lady hitch up my attention by the fact that she is a student of speech therapy and audiology at near University almost perfectly rehabilitated. I have been corresponding at least an hour and her syntax was perfect - she thanked that to her granny and efforts which has been invested into her future. :)

 

So - where is the problem?

Well, after certain time of using TEMPO with perfect results, according to her and my random observation, there came a time for switching a processor. She got RONDO but there started problems - she said that she can not achieve former level of speech recognition. Numerous maps were changed, she even tried OPUS 2S and problems persisted. Problem is that everything what has been said is incomprehensible - she has intensity but words are not recognizable. 

Unexpectedly, speech audiometry/speech recognition test is good. 

OK, next logical step is return to the TEMPO - but ... there is always but :)  actually :( - now she can not achieve former results with her previous procesor, TEMPO, any more. Three years, while wandering around, has passed and now she has lost her previous level of speech recognition. I thought there will be a great loss to lose such a fine young lady.

 

So, I thought - maybe someone has any idea where is a possible problem. 

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  • HearPeers Heroes

Actually this makes sense to me. If you remove the change of processor and look at it as different maps, I can relate. I had a program on my Opus2 right ear that was great but it had an annoying reverberation tone in the lows that was like listening in noise. I tested great with that map but that tone was quite annoying. So we made changes to that map and stored the new map and the original map in my processor. After listening and training with the new map, I decided to return to the old map. Shockingly it sounded awful! So I returned to the new map, intensified my auditory training and achieved even better results.

I switched from the Opus2 to the Sonnet in the right ear in December. I took that ear back through all the auditory training steps with the Sonnet since things sounded different.

So, I would encourage her to go back through all the training steps and retrain her brain to the new sound. CLIX and Angel Sounds are good places to run through again.

We have to be willing to let go sometimes in order to move ahead.

I hope things work out for her.

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  • HearPeers Heroes

Actually this makes sense to me. If you remove the change of processor and look at it as different maps, I can relate. I had a program on my Opus2 right ear that was great but it had an annoying reverberation tone in the lows that was like listening in noise. I tested great with that map but that tone was quite annoying. So we made changes to that map and stored the new map and the original map in my processor. After listening and training with the new map, I decided to return to the old map. Shockingly it sounded awful! So I returned to the new map, intensified my auditory training and achieved even better results.

I switched from the Opus2 to the Sonnet in the right ear in December. I took that ear back through all the auditory training steps with the Sonnet since things sounded different.

So, I would encourage her to go back through all the training steps and retrain her brain to the new sound. CLIX and Angel Sounds are good places to run through again.

We have to be willing to let go sometimes in order to move ahead.

I hope things work out for her.

 

 

Mary Beth - thank you for your response. 

 

I was hoping that you will confirm to me this - a real question is, why she can not get used to the new map? Three years have passed... :(

 

I understand what you are explaining because, although I have just a BB, I had similar experience: got a new instead of old map and I thought I wasn`t satisfied, then tried to return to my old map for which I was sooooooo convinced it is at least 1000x better... But - what`s this?!? This is what I was dreaming to return?!?? Tiny, weak sound... etc... Blah! :D :D :D

 

Now we approach to a next package of problem - we do not have a rehabilitative software like AngelSound or AB Clix. at all. :(

 

And last, according to your database of experience - what people prefer more if they use both Rondo and Opus 2S?

I have read sporadically experiences and my mind recorded that, from an audiological standpoint, recipients prefer OPUS 2S; Rondo was easier to use. Do you have any opinion? 

Unfortunately, getting of both outer unit is not an option where we live? Is there a chance that the Sonnet would resolve a problem? 

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  • HearPeers Heroes

So sorry that auditory rehab apps are not available in all languages equally. That's a shame.

Opus2 and Rondo are based on the same tech so they sound the same.

Sonnet sounds different. More sensitive in the low frequencies. Has a more natural tone quality to sounds for me too.

Sorry she is having such problems.

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Well, situation is like that...

Basically, regarding the hardware it's same situation between Rondo and Opus 2S.

A person who made tuning actually told jer that there is nothing what can be done - there are others with similar situation.

Also, that person claimed that a CI user can not hear birds or a sea wave... Hmmm...

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I guess it would depend on what changes were made to the map. My initial impression is that situation is odd. I switched from opus 2 to Sonnet with no issues. They say that you shouldn't be able to tell a difference in hearing between the Sonnet and the opus 2 as it was the same map and coding strategy but I could have sworn that I heard better. Like we have said in the past, our brains are unique.

Just praying that everything gets worked out. So sorry she is having challenges

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  • HearPeers Heroes

Hi Ivana,

 

Three years is a long time.

 

The TEMPO uses an older speech encoding strategy like CIS.

The OPUS2, RONDO, and SONNET use CIS, FSP, FS4 and FS4-P.

So when she moved to the RONDO and the OPUS2, the audiologist might of used FS4 instead of CIS which definitely would impact her hearing ability.

Which speech encoding strategy is she currently using with the RONDO and OPUS 2?

If it is not CIS tell her to ask her audiologist to try using CIS.

 

Best of luck.

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Didn't even think of it till you said something. I saw a big difference when switching coding strategies. It might take some fine tuning to get things dialed in

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I have no problems hearing birds and ocean waves with my Rondo. I know my last mapping has been a trial. I do hear clearer but do not like the pitch. I find it too high pitched so will discuss it during my next mapping.

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Sandy

The higher pitch for me especially #12 was too much, it took a while for the higher pitches to settle down. I actually had my Audi turn off that electrode for a little while. Once things settled a bit, we turned it back on very low and gradually over time brought it up to where it was comfortable

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  • HearPeers Heroes

Gotcha

Takes notes beforehand and be as specific as possible. Bring those notes with you. This should give your Audi a good idea of what direction to go.

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I guess it would depend on what changes were made to the map. My initial impression is that situation is odd. I switched from opus 2 to Sonnet with no issues. They say that you shouldn't be able to tell a difference in hearing between the Sonnet and the opus 2 as it was the same map and coding strategy but I could have sworn that I heard better. Like we have said in the past, our brains are unique.

Just praying that everything gets worked out. So sorry she is having challenges

 

Well, unfortunately it was made a switch between Tempo and Rondo/Opus 2S - different generations. Tnx Adam for jumping into this muddy pond :) - I wished to share this experience with all of you in order to get better perspective into the situation.

I know - it sounded to me also little bit odd, but that's why I decided to describe you her background so you can see that it's a fine young dedicated woman who is not willing to give up easily. The oddest moment in this story that they actually contacted and got the assistance of "home" audiologist/engineer who has claimed the aforementioned statement. It was also odd to me also, because I could swear that I have read so many stories, yours and many other on YT or internet blogs, where people claim that rain, singing of birds or sea waves - are not problem at all. 

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Sounds like she needs to see a different mapping audiologist. I hear birds and ocean waves just fine, as do many other CI users.

 

However, Mary Beth, I have read yesterday a quick post of Angela Hill where she described the immediate situation with her Rondo.

That's how I am not ready to give up and still searching for a solution.

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Hi Ivana,

 

Three years is a long time.

 

The TEMPO uses an older speech encoding strategy like CIS.

The OPUS2, RONDO, and SONNET use CIS, FSP, FS4 and FS4-P.

So when she moved to the RONDO and the OPUS2, the audiologist might of used FS4 instead of CIS which definitely would impact her hearing ability.

Which speech encoding strategy is she currently using with the RONDO and OPUS 2?

If it is not CIS tell her to ask her audiologist to try using CIS.

 

Best of luck.

 

 

Excellent Hadron! ;) - thank you very much for this tip.

Although I am aware of different coding strategies, it would never occur to me as possible explanation.

We'll work in this direction. :)

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Hi Ivana,

If the Tempo has not been used for three years it probably needs professional cleaning and testing. Perhaps some parts are going bad? Maybe her audiologist or MED-EL can do this?

It would be great if she could get the Tempo working again since she heard so well with it.

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Hi Ivana,

If the Tempo has not been used for three years it probably needs professional cleaning and testing. Perhaps some parts are going bad? Maybe her audiologist or MED-EL can do this?

It would be great if she could get the Tempo working again since she heard so well with it.

 

There is a problem - she changed Tempo with Rondo, tried Opus 2S... But when people who worked with her couldn't resolve her understanding problem they returned to her TEMPO, but after so many changes and using of inadequate map her hearing deteriorated badly so she doesn't understand now even with Tempo. :(

Here I am puzzled a lot - why the old map now don't work for her? How to explain that?

 

She says that she can not understand people in a coffee shop where it is not so quiet but also when her speech audiologist read her behind her head for instance a sentence she loose herself after second or third word. On the other side speech audiometry is - well understood. 

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I agree with Hadron.

Keep in mind Ivana, that Angela is describing the Rondo on her newly activated side (was only activated 2 months ago) so lots is changing in that side right now.

 

Understand that, Mary Beth, I took her as example that she just switch between Rondo and Opus 2S? and still is not quite same (I hope I understood well?). 

I am just catching myself for a details hoping I can find a solution or at least a direction in which we can work.

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  • HearPeers Heroes

Ivana,

It is a shame that the old map does not work on the TEMPO.

There may be something not working with the TEMPO hardware parts. Perhaps the coil or cable is bad or it is dirty and congested inside. It has probably not been cleaned in three years.

Tell her these things may be causing the problem. Perhaps her audiologist can give it a professional cleaning and run tests on the coil, cable and other parts.

If she has not cleaned the TEMPO in a long time she could put it in the cleaning machine overnight.

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I think this is not a problem of cleaning because before switching to the newer outer unit hearing situation was good. After a while (I do not know how long she spent on Rondo) she returned to Tempo and then she could not understand with it. The reason of switching was that Tempo is kicked out of production. 

I am pretty sure that a mix of unexperienced audiologist and unfit map (coding strategies) is the cause of her problem.

 

We'll see - I will report further development of the situation, thank you for a suggestion. 

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