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Question for parents with deaf children


Arielle511

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I do not have children. But I asked my mom is I was born deaf would she get me a CI. She told me no and that I would go to a deaf school that uses ASL and she would have to learn my language and be in my life not the other way around.

I just wonder why do parents just to a CI when the have a deaf child and not put them in their culture of being deaf and a school of their own. I'm not trying to be rude but is it fear, or laziness that you don't want or have time to learn ASL or that you think the deaf school doesn't have the same chances at the hearing schools. I have friends that are deaf and one of them has no CI but has no relationship with her parents because they never bothered to try to learn to communicate with her and that is their fault.

Do parents think of the chance that if it doesn't work but then they have a device that can't be removed for even in their child or what if years go by and you haven't let your child learn to sign or you haven't learned and the CI stop working what do you do now if the communication is blocked. At the end of it it's not a cure and when it's off they are back to being deaf but stuck in between world cause most deaf communities won't accept someone who is implanted and in the hearing world people want to assume deafies with a CI aren't deaf anymore.

My doctor is really great and told me he would never tell someone that is their only choice or best choose he lets every home decide for themselves. He thinks that it should be a decision made by that individual because once it's done that's it. If a child is born deaf then that is who they are and they should be given the chance to be who they are in the world they were born into which is the deaf world.

Again not trying to be rude but I'm just curious. I am a deafie and I was hearing until I was 20 and I made this choice myself 7 years later and my mom still doesn't want me to have a CI but I am getting my first one August 5th. I'm not against a CI but I'm against having choices being taking away that will be in my life for ever.

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I believe this is a parental decision, like millions of other parental decisions that are made for children. I support parents whether they choose CIs or choose ASL. My goal is for language and communication access for all.

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I just feel bad for people who had their choice taken from them.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

This is a big controversial issue in the deaf world. I agree with you I don't like the fact that babies choices are taken from them. I understand that the younger they get a cochlear the better they can do because it 'grows' with them but so many are also left out of the deaf world and are not given a choice to join both worlds instead on just one, and several become angry. But I do have to say that mary beth's goal of communication and language access for all people is probably the best right now because even if the kid doesn't get a choice they are still able to communicate with someone, there are so many deaf kids out there with no language at all, no speech and no ASL, which is sadder than seeing a kid's choice of hearing/or not being taken away from them. At least the kid that gets the implant can eventually decide for themselves if they want to learn sign language and if they want to continue using their CIs or not, whether they want to stay in the hearing world, join the deaf or be in both. Same with kids who aren't implanted and/or those who have hearing aids they eventually get to make a decision. It is not only kids who have CIs that are told not to sign, some kids who have HA or have nothing are told they are not allowed to sign only talk. Then you have to look on the flip side, what about the kid who gets angry at their parents for not implanting them when they were younger so they could 'grow and develop' with the implant instead of getting it later. So it is a very complicated issue, and is a very gray area.

I wish all babies were allowed to learn sign language whether hearing or deaf, and I wish all doctors would give the parents all the choices- CI, HA, nothing, ASL, Speech, mainstream, deaf school...etc not just HA or CI. I wish that parents would realize that just because a kid signs doesn't mean they can't learn to talk as well, that part is a personal/family choice.  And if they don't talk but only sign that doesn't mean they're not smart.

This issue has been on my mind/heart for many years and so far there's no simple answer or solution to it.

Some deaf people are lucky and have family support no matter what, others don't have the support they should but that's not just deaf, that's any child really.

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Interesting questions have been raised... However, one big thing is omitted - hearing neural pathways are best developed when are aided as much as it is possible. Even to an individual who became deaf like you Arielle, hearing pathways weaken with time - those children actually never develop them - it is called a hearing window. That is why the responsibility is up to their parents. Yes - there are numerous examples where children are good rehabilitated even if they are implanted later, but their statistical chances to achieve that result - are smaller. Significantly. This is a perspective of a clinician which I am and lots of people do not understand.

 

Second perspective is, I was born with moderate hearing loss: if a sound is not loud enough I do not hear at all or I do not understand it because all I hear is - mumbling.... This is not usefull. Although I did and wish to learn sign language, up to now I didn`t have enough time to study it properly.

 

What is even more important - I really REALLY like music, my world grows when I can close my eyes and listen music as I can now.

Of course, rehabilitation is somewhat easier in my case, but still - it is everything up to practice and perseverance. Repeat.

Try to run any longer run if you did not exercise by that principle... If you understand what I want to accent. 

Some people have not good results because the reason is mix up of everything - it is our nature.

 

Conclusively, it is hard to guess from the beginning but parents wish best for their children - participating in the hearing world will give them more chances. But, it is ok - to participate in the Deaf culture, that is why I do not accept rejecting implanted children by a deaf communities: it is not fair. If you did not succeed, so the other one should not try. We are not equal in every detail like we should be regarding life possibilities.

I see at the fact that "hearing people" will not significantly change because they do not actually have to - it is up to them whether thwy will or not. But same principle works if we are talking about everyday exercise, bad food or expressing bad feelings; people will never change these events in order they vanish at all. Just like it is utopia that all or most part of "hearing world" will ever learn "useful level" of sign language wherever they are.

 

But - I do not support that "Deaf community" should not have their language or suffocate its express like it is in the movie we have already discussed.

But, bad feelings belong to the history - we should turn ourselves to the sun, not tp the darkness....

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Hi,

I understand what you're saying, but some people who are implanted it is not because they don't have the ability to succeed but they just don't want to hear period.So then the parent implanting them as a kid was basically a waste and just a painful unessecary surgery (to the kid).

There are so many arguments and persectives on this topic its not easy to discuss them all.

I'm not angry with parents I understand to a point their persecptive, I understand the doctor's/aduiologist perspective too, but I also and mostly understand the deaf child's perspective. I have met more than a few kids/young adults who have been implanted and told by their parents that they are not allowed to learn sign, so they never have (some will once they reach college age some wont), but msny of them tell me that they feel like something is missing. And they figure out later on that what has been missing is the deaf culture, once they meet other deaf people who can sign and they are accepted they feel alot better. So I wish that the deaf community was fully acceptance to other deaf people no matter what esepcailly those wanting to be a part of the deaf culture, and accpeting to those hearing people who try to be their friends epescially those that learn sign just because. But I also wish that hearing people were more accepting of deaf epople and that hearing parents would let their deaf child be a part of both worlds, this doesn't mean that their child should sign only or should be sent to a deaf school, but to not prevent their child from learning sign or socalizing with any deaf people around them. thats all. But thats the world right now....we may say we are more accepting than the past, and it may be truer than the past but people still aren't completely accepting. unfortunately

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This is true Amy - but how can you know the difference on the begging of the process having in mind that particular "hearing window" in mind? ;)

 

That`s why it is so hard to discuss it because each argument has its time-frame or are result-specified... People should not judge their parent for their intentions: it is not always "fixing-up" behind that intention - sometimes it is giving the best chance.

We are all looking at this problem from our own perspective - but what is most important to try to understand the other angles or perspectives. 

That`s why this is so dramatic part of lives... There is not one and only solution for all, not even one which possibly won`t change for one individual during the course of her or his life.

 

In any part of our lives we miss certain aspect which devides us from the other. For instance, my hearing loss is a cause of certain syndrome which is congenital. I know how I felt when I finally found someone who actually has it. It is extremely rare, 1:50000 so you can imagine my surprise when I finally found out someone who has it through the internet. I wanted to connect with them but - we can not be same. Everybody has his or her own lives in different countries and different possibilities.

 

Regarding your remark about using hands, I wouldn`t not refer to the old customs when it was forbidden but if you try to exercise and improve one way of communication it is overwhelming task combining everything: developing hearing capabilities depend a lot of using it. We now know that all children who did not get hearing stimulans in proper moment have change of cortex reorganization in order that hearing neurons are replaced with sight neurons: it is natural adaptation. 

But - there is no doubt, the highest clinical authorities like, lately deceased Prof. Niparko supported the principle of total communication.

 

Problem which I usually see in Deaf community is that acceptance is, somewhat, ruled by accepting "house orders". This means, accepting signing in order to be accepted - this is problem as much as it is acceptance of sign language by hearing people. No offense. :)

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Ok Ivana I understand what you're saying, but gotta say I know deaf people have their problems but so do hearing people so no offense taken.

I know that parents don't always do it out of 'Fixing up' but to give their child the best possible chance. But to the child it doesn't matter the parent's intentions if they don't want to be part of the hearing world.

Yes I agree that it is important to understand the other angles and perspectives of both the parent and the child.

Also I wasn't saying that my point of view is right, was just stating my point of view.

And if you are trying to tell me that it is hard to learn to speak and sign at a young age, sorry but you're wrong as I know several fluent bilingual children/or were children.

BTW my name is Shelby not amy, my username is aRmybrat just so you are aware.

I understand the doctor/medical perspective of why kids are implanted young, I thought this post was about understanding the parent/kid- choice and emotional perspective? maybe i'm wrong?

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Pardon me Shelby, but a nickname is what is most easily to remember, especially when so many new members came on the forum....

 

How can they know what their wishes will be when they grow up? If you do not implant in the right moment you miss the "hearing window" but if you really do not like sounds - you can disconnect yourself anytime you wish it. Just take off your outer unit. Isn't this easier? 

 

Different perspective means that not whole world are developed countries like US, Canada or Australia... Some societies are more rigid, some don't have enough money to support Deaf community if they can't get a job. Deaf community where I live struggles a lot - lot of people live due to their social benefits... People deserve more than that but there are not enough money so everybody can have his or her's interpretator...

Of course, this can be seen even like an act of violence against Deaf community but - it's just cruel reality how people perceive other than they are... It is lousy and it sucks but this does not change a thing... 

 

I didn't impute that you think that your perspective is only right - I was trying to point you in another perspective. Here is hard to say what is right or wrong - it is not easy at all to make up your mind and, at the end, each choice is ok and good if person is happy at the end.

 

For the end of my post, how can you got a whole picture if you omit a very important reason for the implantation?

This perspective shouldn't be the most important, of course - just if you omit it, you intentionally miss a very important part of the puzzle. 

 

Like I said, no one here is right or wrong - and Arielle actually mentioned a doctor in her message.

On the other side, I do not know what do you think about "hearing window" factor? 

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Parents can't know, babies can't talk and decide. and yes the kids can later take the outer part off, but they are left with a peice inside that is unnesscary now, and side effects. They are also left angry with their parents. to me thats sad.

ok understand aboutperspective and what youare saying. Yes, no one is right or wrong. especially on this kind of topic.

But you said it yourself- each choice is ok and good if person is happy at the end meaning the kid not the parent because the parent didn't get the implant.

and ok that's fair we do need the whole puzzle pieces to see the whole picture.

She did talk about doctor about her doctor giving choices compared to doctors who only talk about HA, and Implants/Surgeries not deaf culture, also she was saying that her doctor would rather that the individual get to make the decision compared to doctors saying they should get implanted as a baby- parent make decision. but yes what you said is an important puzzle piece and maybe it will help her understand

I understand that the hearing window factor is important, and I understand that if a parent does nothing then you end up with a kid that may want to hear but when they get to the age when they can understand and decide they now can't get one because their parents did nothing about it. I know it's tough, its a tough decision for some parents and some parents have good intentions. I get it, I'm not upset, I'm just pro choice when it comes to something as invasive as a surgery (not an life saving emergency surgery but surgeries you get to choose).

I'm happy for all the people who love and do good with their CI's, I'm happy for all the people who have support/family/friends, I'm happy for those who have communication(s), but my heart breaks for those who are angry/hate their CI's, those whose CI's don't work for them, those who don't have support/family/friends, those who have no communication, and those who feel left behind/left out, those who feel like something is missing. I'm happy for those who are happy with whatever they have regardless of what they have, but for those that don't have or are angry/sad its just sad.

That's what it all comes to. This whole CI thing is not just about the choice parents make of whether their kid gets a CI but it also ties in with their language and culture whether they are to strictly stay in the hearing world or whether they are allowed in both.

I know not all parents intentions is to fix their kid but to give them their best chance, but some parents want to cure their kid and think that CI's are a cure.

I have seen all aspects of deaf life (whether in deaf culture or not) and I just feel like people are most happiest when they get to choose for themselves. Yes there are several kids who are happy with their parents decisions to implant them when they are younger and they love their CIs and do great with them, that's great, it really is.

I just feel for those with sad stories.

I'm lucky because of my mom, I got to choose, I wore hearing aids and didn't want an CI for the longest time, then I changed my mind, I felt like it was time for me to put the past behind me and get a CI because it is the best thing for me, but I got to decide. I live in both worlds, I have both languages. Doesn't mean I don't struggle nothing is perfect, but I'm happy. If my father had his way my story would be a bit different, I'm glad its not.

But no there is no right or wrong. There is only choice and life.

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Parents can't know, babies can't talk and decide. and yes the kids can later take the outer part off, but they are left with a peice inside that is unnesscary now, and side effects. They are also left angry with their parents. to me thats sad.

ok understand aboutperspective and what youare saying. Yes, no one is right or wrong. especially on this kind of topic.

But you said it yourself- each choice is ok and good if person is happy at the end meaning the kid not the parent because the parent didn't get the implant.

and ok that's fair we do need the whole puzzle pieces to see the whole picture.

She did talk about doctor about her doctor giving choices compared to doctors who only talk about HA, and Implants/Surgeries not deaf culture, also she was saying that her doctor would rather that the individual get to make the decision compared to doctors saying they should get implanted as a baby- parent make decision. but yes what you said is an important puzzle piece and maybe it will help her understand

I understand that the hearing window factor is important, and I understand that if a parent does nothing then you end up with a kid that may want to hear but when they get to the age when they can understand and decide they now can't get one because their parents did nothing about it. I know it's tough, its a tough decision for some parents and some parents have good intentions. I get it, I'm not upset, I'm just pro choice when it comes to something as invasive as a surgery (not an life saving emergency surgery but surgeries you get to choose).

I'm happy for all the people who love and do good with their CI's, I'm happy for all the people who have support/family/friends, I'm happy for those who have communication(s), but my heart breaks for those who are angry/hate their CI's, those whose CI's don't work for them, those who don't have support/family/friends, those who have no communication, and those who feel left behind/left out, those who feel like something is missing. I'm happy for those who are happy with whatever they have regardless of what they have, but for those that don't have or are angry/sad its just sad.

That's what it all comes to. This whole CI thing is not just about the choice parents make of whether their kid gets a CI but it also ties in with their language and culture whether they are to strictly stay in the hearing world or whether they are allowed in both.

I know not all parents intentions is to fix their kid but to give them their best chance, but some parents want to cure their kid and think that CI's are a cure.

I have seen all aspects of deaf life (whether in deaf culture or not) and I just feel like people are most happiest when they get to choose for themselves. Yes there are several kids who are happy with their parents decisions to implant them when they are younger and they love their CIs and do great with them, that's great, it really is.

I just feel for those with sad stories.

I'm lucky because of my mom, I got to choose, I wore hearing aids and didn't want an CI for the longest time, then I changed my mind, I felt like it was time for me to put the past behind me and get a CI because it is the best thing for me, but I got to decide. I live in both worlds, I have both languages. Doesn't mean I don't struggle nothing is perfect, but I'm happy. If my father had his way my story would be a bit different, I'm glad its not.

But no there is no right or wrong. There is only choice and life.

 

Your post is long so I will try to organize and give numbers to a certain thoughts you have put here:

1. What are the side-effects of left internal parts? You say you are implanted - why these side-effects does not affect you or any other CI implantee?

2. An implantation is always a choice - not a decision. You undersign a consent - please do not confuse this. 

3. An implantation is not a life-saving operation in a sense of medical emergency but it's success depends when it is performed, especially for children or people who lost their hearing due to the meningitis or trauma. If cochlea calcify, an electrode can not be implant at all. In my opinion, you still did not give a valid contra-argument of "window-framed" implantation.

4. I firmly believe that it is not the CI which separates Deaf culture's members than the decision to condition participation in Deaf culture/society by removing or not using their CI. If there is no schism, it will be possible to share experiences in order that those who are willing can learn sign language so they can talk with members who did not decided for a CI implantation. It could be a useful bridge between "hearing" society and Deaf.

5. It is not reasonable to take a CI as a cure for deafness, it is still a prosthesis, but - you can not fix and/or change all ideas in a world, can you? Parents are children's sheperds - they create them, we presume that they by understanding the world where they live will choose a path which will be right for their children whether it is "hearing" or "silent" world. Equally, nobody calls social service if certain child is not implanted. Nobody takes this choice as child abuse than - a decision.

6. We do understand each other with a thought: there is no right or wrong decision, there is just - a decision which everybody have to accept. 

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1. I'm not saying that other implantees don't have these side effects but they are willing to put up with the side effects because of the success that their cochlear gives them, but the person who doesn't want a cochlear has to put up with side effects of something that they don't even want and therefore isn't helping them

2. an implantation is a choice and a decision. it is a choice on whether we get one or not or do something else but it is also a decision, we have to make up our minds to get one.or to not get one

3. first you didn't not give me a reason on how the implant is life saving in another sense? 2 I wasn't doing a contra-argument, you asked for my thinking.

4. I don't  believe that it is the CI that separates deaf cultures either. What I was saying is that parents of deaf kids with CIs will forbid them from learning sign language, which keeps them apart from deaf culture, not the CI itself but the fact that the parents want their kid to be oral. I was just saying that this happens most often with parent's who decide to implant their children (not all of course) and yes there ae some kids with other implants/ or hard of hearing (not profoundly deaf) kids with HA whose parents also forbid they learn sign language. Any fully deaf kid who doesn't learn sign because of their parents have no communication except what they make up at home as no one else is really able to understand them well, some will make up for it in writing but not always. (that topic is a little off topic not belonging to CI topic).  a bridge between hearing and deaf would be good.

5. no it is not reasonable to take the CI as a cure but that is how some parents think. and no I can't fix or change the ideas in a world just educate people who are willing to be educated. yes I understand about the parents are childrens shepherds. no it is not child abuse I never called it such. I am just saying I think it should be the deaf person's choice not the parent's but I know the world is not like that. I am just saying it is the kid's body, it is their future, it is theirs so I just think it is their choice but babies can't make decisions, so therefore not every kid gets to choose and I understand that. I am not saying that it is abuse or wrong that parents choose it is just my thinking.

6. yes

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Shelby:

1. What are the side-effects you mention? :) 

2. another misunderstanding, I referred to your thought that doctor makes decision for a patient which is not true - he or she gives a choice. A decision is made by patient.

3. I did not say that cochlear implant is life-saving procedure at all - I wrote that its success depends when it is implanted if we talk about profoundly deaf child. If child's hearing loss progress during his or her childhood, hearing pathways still can develop because of stimulus by hearing aid. A valid discussion can not be conducted without - a valid contra- or proarguments. You still did not explained what should we do with - "hearing window-framed" period. I believe that thinking can and should be explained with a help of arguments; otherwise discussion does not have sense - either me or you can not progress with our mental process. I do not see a sense in "defending" thoughts which can not be explained.

4. I really can not give you a good explanation because modern audiologic practice does not support the opinion that sign language should forbid than any way of communication should be explored. This is a concept of total communication. It was supported by lately deceased well-respected Professor Niparko who undersigned an article on that subject. What was in the history should be discussed so the future does not repeat these mistakes.

5. I did not used a term of child-abuse as a thought of your insinuations and thoughts - it was my argument to explain parents' behaviour.  Still we forget that - hearing window period which would give all babies the best chance to habilitate their hearing. The habilitation depends on more factors: the implantation is the smallest part. Persevering in daily practicing and repeating is the best way to achieve it. 

:)

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1. dizzy spells, tinnitus, headaches, balance problems, memory loss.

2. I didn't say that the doctor makes a decision for the patient. I said that some doctors only talk about CI or only talk about CI and HA but don't talk about deaf culture and sign language, and some doctors talk about everything- CI, HA, deaf culture and ASL and deaf schools. I was saying that I prefer doctors that give all the information including deaf culture, deaf schools and ASL and not just CI and HA.

3. ok you had me confused because "An implantation is not a life-saving operation in a sense of medical emergency" which means that it is a life saving in another sense- sorry this is English, should just say that an implant is not a life saving operation. I did not realize you were asking me for a counter argument. you said "I do not know what do you think about "hearing window" factor?" Which meant you were asking for my opinions and thoughts, that to me doesn't have to be backed up by research because it is personal opinion and thoughts not something that has to be ascertained, and yours refuted.  I am not counter arguing the hearing window, I do understand totally about the hearing window, what I am saying is that some deaf people don't want to hear that is all I don't have anything to back this up article wise except names of actual deaf people. For those who don't want to hear the hearing window does not matter. Whether their parents implanted them or not does not matter because they don't want to hear at all. but then those who are implanted are left to live with a reminder in their head and possible anger at parents.

4. after reading your comment I do not think you are understanding what I am saying. I am not asking you to tell me why parent's forbid their kids to learn ASL although there is a chart that backs up the fact that ASL is a good idea. But I do believe in Total communication.

5. ok. Parents don't know what their kids will be like in the future. Don't know what they will think in the future. This I understand so they have to make a choice, and most want to choose to implant their kids so their kids can hear in the future. I understand this. I just feel sorry for those who don't want one in the future.

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1. Vertigo is valid. This site explain possible reasons and possible solutions:

    http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/hearing/hearing-aids/vertigo_cochlear_implant.html

 

    Tinnitus is actually lessen after cochlear implantation but when you shut off the outer unit you can start to focus on it and find as it starts to be louder.

    Memory loss - on the contrary, scientific datas tell us that cochlear implantation slow down dementia; otherwise than that, a CI can not affect central neural system,

    Headaches are very complex problem but as an ear does not hurt it is great question what is exactly problem: we have here reported stories which actually, at the end finish         like neck pain, too strong magnet strength or wrong map. Most of these problems can be fixed.

 

2. You have wrote this: "She did talk about doctor about her doctor giving choices compared to doctors who only talk about HA, and Implants/Surgeries not deaf culture, also she was saying that her doctor would rather that the individual get to make the decision compared to doctors saying they should get implanted as a baby- parent make decision. but yes what you said is an important puzzle piece and maybe it will help her understand...".

You mention choices and decisions in the same sentence - sorry, this is English. (like you said).

Doctors are educated for cochlear implants and hearing aids; talking about Deaf culture is a matter of their general culture - could talk about it but there is no obligations. Similar question could be put to a Deaf societies: do they fully inform their members about cochlear implants? I have heard for some societies which do not even allow a membership to a deaf person who has a cochlear implant. So... This is strictly human factor.

 

3. Yeap - this is English, and you do not understand the difference of what was written/meant: a lot of implantees say that a decision of their parents which gave them a cochlear implant also gave them opportunity for a different kind of life. They refer it as life-saving (not medical emergency) procedure. This is not my opinion just quote. We can debate up to tomorrow what is a real meaning of that term but it is the fact that some CI's implantees feel that way about their CIs.

 

We are talking about extremely sensitive matters - wouldn't it be better to have a counter argument than to debate with your thoughts and inner feelings? What is thinking for you? I believe in this definition: in reaction to a range of stimuli, starts a process that modifies or strengthens their world view, beliefs, opinions, attitudes, and behaviours. How will you achieve this if you do not use - arguments? I am sorry - but these are the rules of debate (not a dispute). 

 

Still, there is no possibility to find out which implantee will like which won't like sound. These stories should be read but can not have certain impact - it only confuses the situation more. If someone made a decision (parent or person) this won't help in either ways.

 

4. Who said that ASL is not a good idea? I understand what you wrote but, unfortunately, you did not understand me. You wrote how parents did not allowed children using of sign language. Well, they didn't make up that by themselves - they heard from someone: a teacher or etc. So, I respond you - modern clinical experience do not support forbidding of sign language use. My thought has continued on your's, because I do not deny it.  

 

5. Fair enough. Researches found that most of deaf children are born by "hearing" parents - this is the base of their thoughts of allowing their kids to participate in hearing world. Of course that we should sympathize with all human beings no matter of the nature of the problem.

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1. I know poeple with CI who had none of these side effects before their CI and now they have them, and they have gone to doctor, who say they can't find the cause, only thing different is CI. I know people with Vertigo after CI, Tinnitus after CI, hedaches after CI, memory loss after CI. And its not during recovery that they are talking about it is after activation and during/after rehab, for their whole lives. And they don't have history of demitia or alzhimers in their family.

 

2. Sorry to confuse you. My sentences do say that the doctors give choices and the patient/parent make decision, except for this one "compared to doctors saying they should get implanted as a baby" this one is basically saying that the doctor is not giving the parent a choice they are only saying CI, the parent still gets to decide yes or no, of course but the doctor is only saying CI.

I understand that doctors are not obligated to talk about deaf culture but I wish they wouldn't force CIs on parents of deaf kids, like some have. Also I wish they would tell parents that they have choice of HA,CI/other implant, or not, and that there are other options that the parents can do research.

 

I have not met any deaf person that does not accept other deaf people, it doesn't matter if you have HA, CI, are deaf or HoH, or if you are fully deaf, they may reject being friends with certain deaf people for other reasons but it is the same with everyone including hearing people. Not everyone wants to be friends with everyone. I have however heard stories of deaf people rejecting HoH, HA users and CI users and that frustrates me and makes me sad.

 

From my knowledge most deaf people (if not young) know about CIs so yes I would say that either the deaf person heard it form another deaf person or audiologist/ENT. I know that deaf people will explain a CI to someone who doesn't understand what it is (in my experience), and I know that deaf people will talk about this issue (parents implanting kids). But I have not had the chance to experience a deaf parent with a deaf baby and whether they explain a CI to their kid or not, so I do not know much about this experience personally. I have heard of deaf parents with kids who have CIs so I don't know.

 

3. ok, I understand now, thanks for clarifying.

 

in reaction to a range of stimuli, starts a process that modifies or strengthens their world view, beliefs, opinions, attitudes, and behaviours- to me I understand it this way- this also talks about life experience that have no article/source to back up what the person belives, opinons, attitudes and behaviors, also world view. I don't know about you but not all my opinons, world views, opinions, attitudes, and behavior comes from what I read or heard about but from life experience.  So this really doesn't explain anything to me. Here in America we argue/think two different ways- one is free personal thought/opinion/feelings/argument; the other is 'professional/resource argument that is backed up by a source. I have just been giving my personal thoughts not things I read. Things I have experienced, with maybe some things I have read but its been a long time.

 

no, you are right there is no way to know so it doesn't help the situation.

 

​4. forgive me for misunderstanding you.

5. yes.

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  • HearPeers Heroes

I just do not want to be rude, just politely making a closing of my participation in this topic. I have not much to add to this discussion as we've stuck in that part of discussion where there are no new pro- or counter arguments and we are not making any progress.

I do understand your reasons, although I do not see any reason which persuaded you to proceed with a cochlear implantation. It would be interesting to read something about that. :)

Also, forgive me if you do not understand me at first - there could be a lot of factors, and people who will read this topic from start, will make their own judgement. I would not discuss any further the possible reasons why you constantly do not understand me. America or to be more clear the United States of America is nothing special - free words and thoughts can be exchanged everywhere as rules for a properly conducted debate. A debate is an old skill dating from a time of Ancient Greece and era of the development of Athenian democracy; it is a method of formally presenting an argument in a disciplined manner. Through logical consistency, factual accuracy and some degree of emotional appeal to the audience are elements in debating, where one side often prevails over the other party by presenting a superior "context" and/or framework of the issue. It's a fun to participate in it - try to get in some debate club, I am sure you have it around your living place. 

 

Cheers! :)

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ok.

Just to state. I do know the difference, wasn't trying to say that its only in America. I just did not know if where you are from only did debates. But was saying where I am from I'm used to both debates and free arguments. I was never trying to do a scholarly debate. I was only talkin from thoughts and experience, and responding to what others, and you said.

 

And just to clarify for you, I am not against CIs for people, so not sure why you made the statement of you don't see why I proceeded with one.

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Just a gentle reminder here! We are a support group who try to best answer questions that people have. We are topic related to med el and all things CIs.

Also parents make the choice for their children. In my eyes since we're a hearing dominated world I would implant a child if I knew it would benefit them. I'm not saying that if my child was deaf and an implant was not viable I would do it. But you also need to remember that many people don't understand things that are different. This is the world we live in.

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  • 3 weeks later...

When the parents are deaf it is easier to see why the parents would want their kids to use sign language as the primary source of communication. Surprisingly, though, I have run across several hearing families that say "we'll just learn sign language". They talk about this as if it is the easy way of doing things and in the immediate issues I can somewhat see the reasoning, but some of the long term issues look like they would be more complicated to me.

I would think parents would want their kids to be implanted or have aids when the parents are hearing, for several different reasons.

1. The kid often learn signs faster than adults just because of being the right age to learn fast. This can lead to many difficult situations that can make communication difficult and/or awkward with the family. 

2. Now many kids (not all) who are implanted at a very early age can blend in surprisingly well with their hearing from birth counterparts. It has been more obvious in the past if a person was born deaf because the technology just wasn't where it is today, but people who are implanted later usually have to work to catch up on their recognition of speech and sound simply because they were not raised with hearing.

3. This one comes from a true story about a deaf lady who had a hearing family, but her parents taught her sign language. Although her immediate family was willing to learn a second language for her sake, they would have to translate at large family gatherings and she missed out on a lot of the conversation. When the tables where turned to where she and her parents met with a large group of deaf individuals, her parents became lost in the conversations going on around them. One individual suggested that they catch up her parents on what was being said in ASL before continuing and she said that they would have to wait. Before translating for her family she had someone tell her parents that this is how she felt at every large family gathering. The parents began to cry claiming they never thought of it that way. She felt like an outsider in her own family because of the language barrier even with lipreading abilities. 

4. If you are hearing, you want any children you may have to get to experience hearing because like smell and taste it is another way of exploring the world and using curiosity to learn new things. Example: Hearing a sound and asking what made that sound, along with other things about the object/animal/person. (I know the typical example is sight, I just feel that sight and sound are too different.) People put less emphasis on taste and smell, but most people who have the ability to smell and taste would feel sorry for their kid who couldn't do either of these. Also, smell is the one sense you can lack that is not considered a disability legally in America, but many times, especially in medical situations, you want a sense of smell. When toxic gases are stored such as the compressed gases that surround an oxygen tank, a chemical is added that gives off a foul smell to warn the patient and medical workers that something is wrong when the oxygen runs out and the toxic gas leaks. (I have been around the oxygen tank situation, it smells like a light artificial rotting smell.)

5. Dopamine (an endorphin associated with rushes of happiness or excitement in general) is released by the brain in reaction to certain pleasant sounds such as music and the parents would not want their kids to miss out on things that has brought them (the parents) happiness. While there are sounds that can be unpleasant, these can sometimes indicate danger such as a siren being part of a alert system that you can hear (if you are a hearing individual) being a father distance away than how close you would have to be to see the strobe light that often goes with it.

6. While technology makes communication in the deaf community even more efficient such as video phones, hearing people and the hard of hearing that speak the main spoken language in the country make up a larger part of the population. You have a larger selection of people to interact with (numerically speaking) and most parents want to give their kids as much possible chance of having a very large social circle from a very early age.

7. I live in one of the largest states in the country and most schools are not built for learning in sign language. The main school for the Deaf here is in the capital (Austin) and not all parents can afford to move to this city for the sake of their kids. Living in the state capital is much more expensive than the other cities in Texas. Insurance often covers cochlear implantation for children, but not moving suddenly because they happen to have a deaf child. I'm know there are some private schools, but those can be difficult to find or get to from where you live. While a large school district may higher a sign translator for the deaf children, some concepts can be difficult for the translator to know how to get across since school covers quite a few topics. It is easier in a setup with multiple translators who are good in different topics. A translator that can explain history well, may struggle with long mathematical formulas.

8. I know individuals who were implanted from an early age and do surprisingly well despite the fact that technology was not as good as it has become. Two individuals work as doctors at a large hospital despite being born deaf. I sat next to a classmate in high school who was implanted who spoke English well and did very well in that Geometry class that we were in. This was prior to my CI that I received for my unilateral deafness.

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