Support for LE Audio (LC3 and AuraCast)?

[John Schulz]

@MED-EL Moderator. Do note that MFI and ASHA are not LE Audio (by technical standards). Will it be available at launch or in an update?

Thank you!

[MED-EL Moderator]

Hi @John Schulz thanks for your question. We can't discuss features or products that are in development here in the forum. But we are always working to provide the best hearing solutions for our recipients and we are aware that LE audio is wish for many users and we will support Auracast once the technology is spread. 

Kind regards, Barbara 

[John Schulz]

2 minutes ago, MED-EL Moderator said:

Hi @John Schulz thanks for your question. We can't discuss features or products that are in development here in the forum. But we are always working to provide the best hearing solutions for our recipients and we are aware that LE audio is wish for many users and we will support Auracast once the technology is spread. 

Kind regards, Barbara 

OK, can you provide the Bluetooth version of the Sonnet 3 then (i.e. 4.2, 5.1, etc.)?

[Mike Austin]

I'd say they'd have had their silicon locked into the design at least 2 years ago.
 

The Sonnet 2 uses the Dialog DA146x series chips. I'm guessing the Sonnet 3 uses the more up to date DA1470x series, which are up to 5.3. But 5.3 wasn't released until July 2021 which would be a bit "experimental" at that part of their design cycle, so if I were to guess I'd say it's v5.2. Support for ASHA only came out with v5.2 as well

 

[Mary Beth]

So far what I have read from Med-El is that they will support LE Audio & AuraCast when it has spread to the market.

How they will support it has not been announced yet.

Will Sonnet 3’s internal direct BT receiver be able to have a firmware update to support it?  I doubt it or I would think that Med-El would advertise it as such.

Will the new AudioLink XT be able to have a firmware update to support it?  I would guess this approach may be more likely.  It would act as an intermediary device or bridge to LE Audio & AuraCast.

These are just my personal thoughts based on the fact that Sonnet 3 is not being advertised as LE Audio & AuraCast ready.

I wonder how long it will take before AuraCast actually does show up widely in places?

[Mike Austin]

I do wonder about everyone's fascination with wanting Auracast compatibility, given its VERY new technology that isn't widely available yet.

What people need to appreciate is the very long lead times between design, approval and market release.

Just because the Bluetooth SIG announces an update to the spec, don't expect that feature to be commercially available in any broad sense for +3 years at least. And that's being generous.

i was involved in the original wireless charging concept design and commercialization. That was 2004. I'm only just seeing charging pad technology rolling out in cars, airports, cafes etc now, some 20 years later. It probably won't take that long for airports, train stations, cinemas etc to adopt, but beyond hearing aid and maybe earbud compatability, we're not going to see too much Auracast availability before probably the Sonnet/Rondo 4!

 

[Mary Beth]

@Mike Austin

Very valid points.  I am excited about AuraCast and hope it lives up to its hype.  But I am realistic in timing for it to be readily available in communities and home/personal devices.

HA and some CI brands have been advertising being LE Audio/AuraCast ready.  I think that is why everyone is asking.

 

[John Schulz]

29 minutes ago, Mike Austin said:

I do wonder about everyone's fascination with wanting Auracast compatibility, given its VERY new technology that isn't widely available yet.

What people need to appreciate is the very long lead times between design, approval and market release.

Just because the Bluetooth SIG announces an update to the spec, don't expect that feature to be commercially available in any broad sense for +3 years at least. And that's being generous.

i was involved in the original wireless charging concept design and commercialization. That was 2004. I'm only just seeing charging pad technology rolling out in cars, airports, cafes etc now, some 20 years later. It probably won't take that long for airports, train stations, cinemas etc to adopt, but beyond hearing aid and maybe earbud compatability, we're not going to see too much Auracast availability before probably the Sonnet/Rondo 4!

 

I understand that AuraCast itself will be at least another two years before airports starts adopting it; longer elsewhere most likely. However, I have LE Audio on both my phone and laptop and the audio quality is the same, if not better, than Bluetooth classic codecs like SBC and AAC. This is based on personal testing and matches testing done by BTSIG. I have yet to use ASHA but based on codec specs alone, LC3 (LE Audio) blows G722 (ASHA) out of the water. 

[Mary Beth]

@John Schulz

Do you know which iPhones have LE Audio?  I tried to find that out online and it still is it clear to me.

[John Schulz]

14 minutes ago, Mary Beth said:

@John Schulz

Do you know which iPhones have LE Audio?  I tried to find that out online and it still is it clear to me.

I don't use Apple products. I have heard that the AirPods Pro and Max use LE Audio by default and I think it will use it if detected but can't say this with 100% certainty. Apple won't call it LE Audio because it's not something they "made".

 

Edit, I think it's been in them since 14?

[John Schulz]

9 minutes ago, John Schulz said:

I don't use Apple products. I have heard that the AirPods Pro and Max use LE Audio by default and I think it will use it if detected but can't say this with 100% certainty. Apple won't call it LE Audio because it's not something they "made".

 

Edit, I think it's been in them since 14?

The official answer is no support, period: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102842

[Mike Austin]

Not sure about you guys, but I'm SSD. The audio quality difference between my functional ear and my CI is akin to AM v FM.

I'm just internally grateful I'm even getting the "AM" 🤣

Wondering about which codec the latest processor is running is akin to wondering which berth at St Tropez I might get allocated for my non-existent mega yacht

[Ely]

I think that everyone is anxious about Auracast and LE Audio for different reasons. For me LE Audio is important because it will more easily allow simultaneous direct streaming to two different devices. In my case I am SSD, so ideally I would want to be able to simultaneously stream to my CI (right ear) and an Airpod or equivalent headphone (left ear). The bluetooth version matters in this case because if the Sonnet 3 doesn't have a at least bluetooth 5.2, it won't be able to support this functionality in the future without an extra device. 

For Auracast, I think having the compatibility is important to people because the Sonnet 3 doesn't natively support telecoil, and Auracast is a natural replacement. Also, because Bluetooth is such a commonplace and low cost technology, I would guess the shift to Auracast is going to happy pretty quickly once it does start to get going, so knowing that the Sonnet 3 can support it with a software update (vs. again requiring an additional device) is very top of mind for many. Again, Auracast also requires at least Bluetooth 5.2.

@MED-EL Moderator, we're not asking for you to give away any information about future product development or timing, but if you could just tell us the bluetooth version being used by the Sonnet 3 it would be greatly appreciated everyone on here (again, this isn't a secret, because it is a physical feature of the Sonnet 3 and can't be changed). 

[Mike Austin]

@Ely

Here's how I get the functionality you are looking for with my Rondo 😁

 

[John F]

16 hours ago, Mike Austin said:

I do wonder about everyone's fascination with wanting Auracast compatibility, given its VERY new technology that isn't widely available yet.

What people need to appreciate is the very long lead times between design, approval and market release.

Just because the Bluetooth SIG announces an update to the spec, don't expect that feature to be commercially available in any broad sense for +3 years at least. And that's being generous.

i was involved in the original wireless charging concept design and commercialization. That was 2004. I'm only just seeing charging pad technology rolling out in cars, airports, cafes etc now, some 20 years later. It probably won't take that long for airports, train stations, cinemas etc to adopt, but beyond hearing aid and maybe earbud compatability, we're not going to see too much Auracast availability before probably the Sonnet/Rondo 4!

 

This has been talked to death about for at least the last 5 years now with folks waiting and waiting.  I, too am always a bit confused when folks demand this needs to be in the next update, but it’s barely hit the market.  It’ll take a few years to be widely adopted.  One can understand why some tech companies aren’t throwing all their chips in the basket just yet.  One cannot understand the obsession over it imo.  
 

I’m glad a couple people seem to use it daily and boast about it.  Doesn’t help anybody else.  When the infrastructure supports utilizing Auracast and LE Audio, then it’ll be exciting.  As is, it’s a lot of hype for barely being out the door still.  🤷‍♂️

[kingleviathan]

Why shouldn't we demand that med-el have the latest technology and be ready for le audio and aurocast?

Medel were until last week,  the last cochlear company to introduce direct streaming from phone to cochlear...some 6? 7? 8? years after their competitors. Which i word think most users not only found frustrating but disappointing. 

Do we really need to go through the whole experience being made to wait for years again while the competitors have it?  It not unreasonable to think the sonnet 4 is 8 or so years away... so i think wanting to have the future proof stuff with known technologies now with this release is very reasonable

LE Audio for the record has highly quality with lower batter drain.  Even without the benefits of Auracast, it seems like a good reason to want LE Audio to me.  

[John F]

4 hours ago, kingleviathan said:

Why shouldn't we demand that med-el have the latest technology and be ready for le audio and aurocast?

Medel were until last week,  the last cochlear company to introduce direct streaming from phone to cochlear...some 6? 7? 8? years after their competitors. Which i word think most users not only found frustrating but disappointing. 

Do we really need to go through the whole experience being made to wait for years again while the competitors have it?  It not unreasonable to think the sonnet 4 is 8 or so years away... so i think wanting to have the future proof stuff with known technologies now with this release is very reasonable

LE Audio for the record has highly quality with lower batter drain.  Even without the benefits of Auracast, it seems like a good reason to want LE Audio to me.  

I hate to say it, but MedEl, even this week are still behind the other cochlear companies.  I'm not defending them or their decision making (AudioLink XT is utterly disappointing with little change from the panned rushed first version...), but like I said, until LE Audio and Auracast is widely adopted, which it will be... very slowly, then it's not worth being annoyed by or demanding right now.  I'd been perfectly happy had MedEl went with standard BT and not BTLE... again.   

[Ely]

21 hours ago, Mike Austin said:

@Ely

Here's how I get the functionality you are looking for with my Rondo 😁

 

@Mike Austin, I'm glad you found something that works for you. I unfortunately cannot even wear my rondo, let alone adding additional weight from the airpod and the attachment due to the available magnets not being strong enough to maintain a connection. I know there are many others who are in similar situations as well. Most of us are scrappy and try to make things work with the workarounds we can find or think to try, but in many cases these just don't work for. Bluetooth LE is an existing technology that is already enabled in newer Android phones, and partially enabled in iPhones that would provide a much simpler workaround for more people, and I don't think it is at all far-fetched for us to want to know if this (5+ year old) technology is even compatible with the newest model processor Med-El is releasing next year effectively. Again, I'm glad you've found a solution that works for you, but I don't think it is fair to disparage others who have not yet been able to solve this problem and are just looking for some basic information from the company we are locked into for life.

[MED-EL Moderator]

On 9/23/2024 at 3:03 PM, John Schulz said:

OK, can you provide the Bluetooth version of the Sonnet 3 then (i.e. 4.2, 5.1, etc.)?

@John Schulz, SONNET 3 uses 5.2 version Bluetooth. 

Kind Regards

[John Schulz]

35 minutes ago, MED-EL Moderator said:

@John Schulz, SONNET 3 uses 5.2 version Bluetooth. 

Kind Regards

Thank you!