Outrage and Call to Arms, Economist article

[jpl2ci]

I read this article and was stunned to discover the inaccuracies it contained. Please read and add your comments. The comments include published authors and fellow CI posters from other forums.

 

http://www.economist.com/news/international/21582038-technology-lets-deaf-people-hear-has-downside-it-threatens-sign-languages-listen-up

 

thanks

[Ivana Marinac]

Ha, look John...

There will always be so called "right-religious" who are more radical than average. Lobbying for their own interests or, what is even more problematic - fears of unknown.

Then you add all sort of magazines, the world who is ill because of lack of responsibility, speed to the limit... So easy to propagate wrong facts and minimum responsiblity to understand that as grown-up people solely individual has right to choose.

But - on the other side, you also have immature people who can not understand the value of journey not just finish line. Or just, too pressured to handle the world.

 

For instance, I would really like that the reporter explained on what way CI (but not HA ???) endanger - sign language?

 

I have example from my country when rehabilitate workers were frighten that they will loose their job - because CI cures everything!

After many years, it was proved this is not true - not just they still have their jobs than they have work to do more than anytime.

 

There is one more thing - it is also question how well and thorough was talked with those implant receiver who are not satisfied? I read their expectations which is not realistic:

a) artificial hearing will never be like natural, but HEY! why we have to emphasize that all the time? 

it takes time for brain to adapt - the reporter admits that but do not explain it - I take it as his right path to be fully shallow.

c) teacher of education is talking about - meningitis?!? Higher education does not mean you are - God and superior power to everybody else. This means you just understand that each problem is not so easy and it has to be carefully discussed.

 

And - we are talking about subculture of deaf people - isn`t it better that all people can work together without ghettos? Of course, if you are not afraid of outer space... I am talking from my own experience - at first my parents and lately me, could choose to live in the subculture of deaf people but it was just not right. You could got only, I would say - half-of-jobs, you could not be equal part of the society - yes I could choose to be victim of my fear but dwelling with life`s expectations - enables me to grow. There is no limits, and you do not know what you can accomplish. There is only one drawback - you have problem with abstinence crisis: you always find another challenges.

Of course, I can understand them - but I choose not to enter into their "box".

 

ugh....

[Adam]

WOW!

 

This person could not have been further from the truth. surprised it even got published.

[Sandy]

Wow as well. It's hard to believe that a person would not use whatever means available to enrich their lives and those around them!

[Ivana Marinac]

Fear. But The Economist? 

 

It would be nice to write the reaction on this article to the editor - these against "reasons" are old nearly 20 years. If I had not read the publication date I would think - very old issue...

[Adam]

Actually you would be surprised at how much the Deaf community (in the U.S.) has changed their stance on CI's and hearing people in general. Historically they have been very distrusting of the "hearies" mainly because all of the abuse they suffered in the 18 and early 1900's. originally if you were born deaf they put you in insane asylums. Because of the fact that you didn’t develop speech and seemed to ignore or be in your own little world, they figured you were either crazy or very dumb. They didn’t know what to do with the people so they shipped them off to asylums. Eventually each state had their own school for the deaf. The parents didn’t know how to handle the kids so they would go to the state school during the week and come home on the weekends. In Deaf culture today, if you meet somebody for the first time, it is common to introduce yourself with your name and what school you went to. In these schools though, the kids were forced to be oral and not sign. Big punishments were handed out if you were caught signing . The deaf feel like they are not “broken” as that is how God made them therefore they do not need to be “fixed”. I will stop it here. Probably waay more info than you wanted. All that to say the deaf attitudes towards hearing people are much better than they used to be. If there is a hearing person that is genuinely interested in their culture and wants to try to learn ASL, they are very accepting, patient (although they might giggle at your mistakes occasionally) and willing to help any way they can. The CI topic was a real hot button topic for a while as they felt that the hearies were trying to phase out the deaf culture. Some deaf still feel that way but a majority are more accepting these days.

 

[Eagle]

I read the article and wrote my comment. This is what I wrote.

 

Whoever written this must be very depress. That person sound quite manipulating and should seek help. I have a CI and it really has made my life a lot easier. It save the environment, by shutting unnecessary thing off when you can hear it. Also save many lives from getting run over such as traffic, farm machinery, construction, forklift, etc.... Job opportunity is easier if you can hear. Less stress in communication and misunderstanding. I have nothing against deaf people, just saying ASL will not help in some situation that I described. Back then when I was deaf, struggling with Hearing Aid, my mother said don't worry, they will have something for you in the future when CI didn't exist. My prayer has been answer.

 

THIS IS THE REPLY I GOT IN MY EMAIL :

 

DrWardD wrote:
Absolutely right. Benefits far outweigh the risks with a CI, and they are the single most successful prosthetic device.

[Ivana Marinac]

 

Actually you would be surprised at how much the Deaf community (in the U.S.) has changed their stance on CI's and hearing people in general. Historically they have been very distrusting of the "hearies" mainly because all of the abuse they suffered in the 18 and early 1900's. originally if you were born deaf they put you in insane asylums. Because of the fact that you didn’t develop speech and seemed to ignore or be in your own little world, they figured you were either crazy or very dumb. They didn’t know what to do with the people so they shipped them off to asylums. Eventually each state had their own school for the deaf. The parents didn’t know how to handle the kids so they would go to the state school during the week and come home on the weekends. In Deaf culture today, if you meet somebody for the first time, it is common to introduce yourself with your name and what school you went to. In these schools though, the kids were forced to be oral and not sign. Big punishments were handed out if you were caught signing . The deaf feel like they are not “broken” as that is how God made them therefore they do not need to be “fixed”. I will stop it here. Probably waay more info than you wanted. All that to say the deaf attitudes towards hearing people are much better than they used to be. If there is a hearing person that is genuinely interested in their culture and wants to try to learn ASL, they are very accepting, patient (although they might giggle at your mistakes occasionally) and willing to help any way they can. The CI topic was a real hot button topic for a while as they felt that the hearies were trying to phase out the deaf culture. Some deaf still feel that way but a majority are more accepting these days.

 

Adam - violence according one side bear the violence back. It is simple law of physics - the Newton law of action and reaction.

Understanding is important but from both sides - you have to know when you should stop and not messing with other people choices or possibilities.

You can not write or make up something what is wrong. And even if you don't know it is wrong - that does not liberates you of responsibility. It is crime against other person (at least ethically) if you don't say something that you think you should but at least - they are fully informed. On that way it is possible for them to make responsible choices although life is nothing what can be predicted so - it is wise to keep expectations low but your forehead always up!

[Adam]

I saw this response just a little while ago

 

http://cochlearimplantonline.com/site/letter-to-the-economist-editor-i-am-extremely-disappointed-in-the-economists-article-on-cochlear-implants/

[jpl2ci]

 Adam, thanks for posting the link. It will be very interesting to see what, if anything The Economist does to correct the inaccuracies contained in the article. The base article was definitely not fair and balanced.

[Adam]

John, I gotta agree. I don't think I have seen an article that way off in quite a while. Bad for them it is going viral on different hearing and cochlear sites and people are not happy.

[Ivana Marinac]

 

Adam, thanks for posting the link. It will be very interesting to see what, if anything The Economist does to correct the inaccuracies contained in the article. The base article was definitely not fair and balanced.

Not balanced at all John, also the response never mentioned wrong fact about getting meningitis over CI electrode. This is also pretty much disputable and no one responded. Personally, possibly professional deformation but I do not see how manipulation with health issue can be justified.

[Adam]

havent checked the responses today but as of last night there were around 80 not very posutive responses

[jpl2ci]

109 responses and counting.

[Ivana Marinac]

Now it becomes very interesting - there is comment of that person who was implanted when she was 6 and she said that her words were taken out of context.

Also, someone else is taking deaf-side...

 

Popcorn please...

Or like Chines would say (although it's not their idea): ping pong continues.

[Adam]

Ivana that person posted again.  I have only seen one comment from the publication. anything from the author?

[Camille]

I've always wondered why it's OK to get glasses to help your vision but not OK to do anything to help your hearing???

[Adam]

Camille,

That is a great point. When was the last time somebody who wore glasses was called handicapped? Of course blind is a different matter but I'm trying to make a point. Any way you look at it, you are going to have VERY passionate viewpoints that make sense on both sides of the fence. I think what it boils down to is deciding what is right for you but not throwing stones at somebody else if they dont do the same. I personally know some people who would easily qualify for a CI but have decided that it is not for them. That is their choice and that is ok. I know others who got implanted just as soon as they could and that is fine too. bottom line is it is a very personal decision that each person is gonna have to make. You just have to be careful on this subject as it seems to bring out the best in some folks and the worst in others. It is totally ok to be proud and passionate of the implant you have. It also is all in the delivery. I am exremely proud to be a medel recipient and I will wave that flag any chance I get. That being said, I am also going to respect others who have a right to disagree with me. Ok I'll get off of my soapbox now  Sorry for the ramble.

[Sandy]

No Adam, you are not rambling. You are correct. I remember when I first heard about CIs and at first wanted to try non- invasive way, a HA in the hope that it would help. And like so many others before me have said, I wish I had done this sooner. It is a very personal choice.

[Eagle]

This been going on a long time ago on the internet, since I had my CI. I read all the negative before I had my surgery and decided to go ahead with it. The most important thing is having friends and family that are supportive and a lot of encouragement that offset the negative. It was a success and if it wasn't for the encouragement and support, I would have never known how great CI was. I would have been brain wash and stuck in the deaf world. I do hang out with deaf group twice a year and none of them have CI. I have many friends who are deaf and there are many reason why they are not looking forward to a CI as some are waiting for a fully integrated CI and the rest are happy being deaf. To my surprise, since I am the only one with a CI implant out of the whole deaf group that none has came up to me and complain about it. They were mostly interested and had to explain how it work and what it sound like. They are happy social group and very funny and are successful in life. I know very little ASL and communication was easy using a lot of face gesture and hand signal.

[Ivana Marinac]

 

Ivana that person posted again.  I have only seen one comment from the publication. anything from the author?

 

I know - but someone is conducting her own crusade, perfectly combined: she hears but her wider family does not and she defend them and their way of life.

Like they are endangered at all...

[Ivana Marinac]

 

Camille,

That is a great point. When was the last time somebody who wore glasses was called handicapped? Of course blind is a different matter but I'm trying to make a point. Any way you look at it, you are going to have VERY passionate viewpoints that make sense on both sides of the fence. I think what it boils down to is deciding what is right for you but not throwing stones at somebody else if they dont do the same. I personally know some people who would easily qualify for a CI but have decided that it is not for them. That is their choice and that is ok. I know others who got implanted just as soon as they could and that is fine too. bottom line is it is a very personal decision that each person is gonna have to make. You just have to be careful on this subject as it seems to bring out the best in some folks and the worst in others. It is totally ok to be proud and passionate of the implant you have. It also is all in the delivery. I am exremely proud to be a medel recipient and I will wave that flag any chance I get. That being said, I am also going to respect others who have a right to disagree with me. Ok I'll get off of my soapbox now  Sorry for the ramble.

 

Correctly Adam, here is problem "mixing of interests" - while we stick by our choices it is ok, but the moment we start to look in the neighbours garden - catastrophe begins.

 

From the bottom of my soul, I confirm your words. As a MED-EL implant recipient I just knew when the moment of decision arrived. As my hearing loss did not develop, I was born with it so I can not say that I have tried non-invasive way but I felt that moment when I just knew that my conventional HA can not help me as much as I need to be. In my country we do not have so many interpreters as we need. Financially, like so many countries we are in shortage - those comments on the account of "the third world countries" are ridiculous: we started our program 16 years ago pretty soon after war ended and we had money for everything. So what she was talking about?

 

Conclusively, I work with people who are CI implanted and, I one moment I will never forget: not the activiation, than the moment when a small girl with CI came closer to her dad and whispering asked him if he could ask Doc: can she use a cell-phone.

[Ivana Marinac]

 

This been going on a long time ago on the internet, since I had my CI. I read all the negative before I had my surgery and decided to go ahead with it. The most important thing is having friends and family that are supportive and a lot of encouragement that offset the negative. It was a success and if it wasn't for the encouragement and support, I would have never known how great CI was. I would have been brain wash and stuck in the deaf world. I do hang out with deaf group twice a year and none of them have CI. I have many friends who are deaf and there are many reason why they are not looking forward to a CI as some are waiting for a fully integrated CI and the rest are happy being deaf. To my surprise, since I am the only one with a CI implant out of the whole deaf group that none has came up to me and complain about it. They were mostly interested and had to explain how it work and what it sound like. They are happy social group and very funny and are successful in life. I know very little ASL and communication was easy using a lot of face gesture and hand signal.

Yes Brian but we live in 21st century, 20 and so years after first reasonably successful CI implantation. What would they say about that person who said yes to the implantation in 60-ties and 70-ties just to hear - one tone. About real hearing then was still too early.

 

Regarding your story, this is quite ok because each and everyone has decided on their own. No one said anything against your choice, no one is trying to be bigger pope than Pope himself...This is peaceful co-existence.

 

For instance, few days ago I have watched a youtube episode where I have seen person with my condition but what surprised me a lot is the fact that he signs although he has a hearing aid just like mine so his hearing is not totally normal but it is very good. Why, for Gd sake is he signing....? I was intrigued. Than he told that he learnt it before he got his HA and so this kind of communication stayed with him (like an old habit).

[Sandy]

Ivana, I can relate to why the guy still signed. I have my CI but still lip read. I'm told by my audiologist that it is so ingrained in me that I probably will always use it even though I am hearing. I'm trying to listen more and admit that it is definitely harder to do especially the rehab but its practice, practice and more practice.

Did anyone watch the Today show? I am so happy for her. But must admit disappointed in that they didn't delve deeper into the issue of CI vs no CI and why the column was so negative. It did give a positive spin though which is what's needed.

[Adam]

Sandy, I was really surprised as well. It almost seemed like the sriter had an agenda. therre were so many different ways they could have gone with that story and didnt. What frustrates me is the people that know nothing about CI's and deafness read this story, If anything, it really stokes what was already a pretty burning fire to educate as many as possible the benefits of CI's . Granted not all outcomes are the same as it depends on the persons hearing history. If you have a person who has been profoundly deaf their entire life and is in thier 60's and gets a CI for the first time,  if they can hear environmental sounds and cues to help lipread, to me that is a success. to the uneducated, they think it is like just flipping a switch and we have perfect hearing. Not so much. Thats where I think we all havew a duty to inform those that ask about our CI's

I have a few deaf freinds and sign as well. albeit very rusty. I made it through level 4 of the 6 levels of ASL. The big issue is you use it or lose it. I havent used much hence the rust. It would still come in handy especially when I am out of reach of a "normal" hearing person. I have signed across a very crowded huge room to somebody. that saved a long walk.

Sandy I have noticed my lipreading not as good as it was. I was VERY good at lipreading before my ci but now I'm a little rusty. That is a blessing in that my CI's are doing their job. It's a bit of a curse in that as I said before, you use it or lose it. You know what, I am totally fine with getting a little rusty with my lipreading. Thattells me I am right on track.

There is a couple at church I see frequently and I have never ever seen anyone read lips as well as she does. If you took away the typical "deaf accent" you would never know at all that she was deaf.

Ok I am starting to go off on tangents, I'll end it here. One last question

Howmany asw the today show segment and what were your thoughts?